How Can Jesus Be "GOD" and Have a "God" At The Same Time?

[apostoli]

All Christians are sons of God. That is, if you are led by the spirit of God. Romans 8:14

Unlike Jesus, all Christians are sons by adoption. According to scripture Jesus was directly begotten by God via Mary.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

Read the next verse...

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. "

Since I am led by the spirit of God, I am a son of God.

Only if he decides to adopt you...

Just as John 1:1c states "what God was the Logos was" (NEB)

Was? or still is?

The word in Greek is indefinite, so "was and still is" is the meaning. In English "was" can also be used in an indefinite sense - according to context (subject).

If Jesus is God then in the second phrase of John 1:1, "the word was with God" who or what is the word, "word" referring to?

The identity that was "face to face" (pros) with o theos = o Logos.

It cannot be God, for "together, not separately, the three make up God" according to one definition of the trinity.

According to the RCC, EOC,ROC, OOC etc (99% of Christian Orthodoxy), the Father is the source and cause of the Son and the Spirit, and is the only one of the three that is God of himself. "God" is only known through his activity (physis) and that activity is manifested through the Son and the Spirit. The three participating in the one ousia/physis are the only knowledge we have of the Godhead. Consider Colossians 2:9 where Jesus is described as being "theotēs" = "the state of being God".

God according to the trinity is composed of "the Father, the son and the Holy Ghost"

In Trinity doctrine God is not composed, the idea is one of unified activity - three unique identities, one unique activity.

So, the word "God" in "the word was with God" includes Jesus Christ.

Nope!

So I repeat my question, "Who or what was with God in the second phrase of John 1:1, "the word was with God"?

o Logos!

As for the Trinity, I guess you ignore John 16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He [the Paraklete] will take of Mine and declare it to you".

Could you explain why you think that that verse teaches a trinity? or that it somehow teaches that Jesus Christ is God?

It evidences that whatever the Father possesses so does the Son and the Spirit.

The Father gave the son those things. Jesus Christ did not have those things until the Father gave it to him.

So it is with every son!

You say the Father and the son are equal,

Were they equal before God gave all those things to Jesus Christ or were they equal after God gave all those things to Jesus Christ?

In ousia and physis to use the scriptural terms, they were equal at the begetal of the Son.

If Jesus was God, why would God have to give him those things, seeing that God already had them?

you are confusing the scriptural ideas hypostasis with ousia/physis. When I was begotten by my father my hpostasis participated in the ousia of my father, same with the Son and his Father.

Seems you also ignore Phillipians 2:9 "God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name'. It isn't men that have exalted Jesus, but his own Father.

No, I do not ignore it, I actually read it and believe it and understand it.

It says God exalted God, doesn't it?...God exalted his son, because the son obeyed the Father. Jesus christ's obedience earned him the exaltation of being seated on the right hand of the throne of God.

It says the Son's Father exalted the Son above all things, to the point that "God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow...". As a Christadelphian acquaintace of mind admits, this text makes it plain that if nothing else God has made the Son, God to us. For the name Jesus is exhalted even above any name man can give to God, and instead of God we are to bow to Jesus. Albeit, by doing so, the Father is glorified.

do you know why Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the throne of God instead of in the throne of God?

See Revelation 22:1, he is seated on the same throne as his father. Dual thrones were a common object in ancient times.

It is because God occupies the throne of God.

In which case, from Revelation 22:1, Jesus must be God!

So there is no room for Jesus Christ to sit there. He was exalted to sit on the right hand of God..

See Revelation 22:1

The trinity and the "deity" of Jesus Christ is not scripture, it is YOUR OPINION.

The word "Trinity" doesn't occur in scripture, that true enough. But that there is a common activity of three individuals is obvious to anyone who has eyes.

So read and reread my post with your Bible and then you will have scripture instead of opinion.

Read Romans 8.

[abu njoroge]

I believe that God is the source of all things. I believe the Holy Ghost(holy spirit),Word ,logos is God in action and the part of God that is omnipresent. This is the part one must allow into there heart to be truly born again. Jesus became one with the spirit of God by completly surrendering to the spirit of God in all he did. Thus he could say I and the Father are one yet he never claimed to be the Father but one with his eternal spirit. God has many names, The holy spirit purfies,sanctifies and enlightens. Jesus was a wayshower who baptised with the holy spirit not just symbolic water as most churches do. I would argue that most performing this ritual themselves usually do not have the presence of the holy spirit within them. They are just pushing tradition and ritual. Jesus never required worship of himself but adherence to love of one another. When one is enraptured with the holy spirit they become a channel for divine love. God never hated any soul. Those that believe in a God that does are preaching a false doctrine. So we have God as Source. Gods spirit the Word that is the first begotten, meaning first thing to proceed forth from God. Jesus Became one with this Word. For the Word is the original Christ spirit. And third we have Yeshua Who had free will and willingly chose complete surrender to God, thus recieved the Christ spirit as his own ,and becoming an ultimate channel for the Divine spirit.

[barley]

Unlike Jesus, all Christians are sons by adoption. According to scripture Jesus was directly begotten by God via Mary.

Read the next verse...

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. "

Only if he decides to adopt you...

The word in Greek is indefinite, so "was and still is" is the meaning. In English "was" can also be used in an indefinite sense - according to context (subject).

The identity that was "face to face" (pros) with o theos = o Logos.

According to the RCC, EOC,ROC, OOC etc (99% of Christian Orthodoxy), the Father is the source and cause of the Son and the Spirit, and is the only one of the three that is God of himself. "God" is only known through his activity (physis) and that activity is manifested through the Son and the Spirit. The three participating in the one ousia/physis are the only knowledge we have of the Godhead. Consider Colossians 2:9 where Jesus is described as being "theotēs" = "the state of being God".

In Trinity doctrine God is not composed, the idea is one of unified activity - three unique identities, one unique activity.

Nope!

o Logos!

It evidences that whatever the Father possesses so does the Son and the Spirit.

So it is with every son!

In ousia and physis to use the scriptural terms, they were equal at the begetal of the Son.

you are confusing the scriptural ideas hypostasis with ousia/physis. When I was begotten by my father my hpostasis participated in the ousia of my father, same with the Son and his Father.

It says the Son's Father exalted the Son above all things, to the point that "God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow...". As a Christadelphian acquaintace of mind admits, this text makes it plain that if nothing else God has made the Son, God to us. For the name Jesus is exhalted even above any name man can give to God, and instead of God we are to bow to Jesus. Albeit, by doing so, the Father is glorified.

See Revelation 22:1, he is seated on the same throne as his father. Dual thrones were a common object in ancient times.

In which case, from Revelation 22:1, Jesus must be God!

See Revelation 22:1

The word "Trinity" doesn't occur in scripture, that true enough. But that there is a common activity of three individuals is obvious to anyone who has eyes.

Read Romans 8.

Read the next verse...

"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. "

Only if he decides to adopt you...

There are two aspects to a believers sonship, since believers are human beings born of earthly parents, God had no part in the seed/egg process there. Therefore in one sense, we had to be chosen/adopted by God. But our sonship does not end there. We are to be born again. Being born again, born from above implies seed which is exactly what I Peter 1:23 tells us. Christians are not only chosen Ephesians 1:4 but sons of God by seed. Incorruptible seed.

Since this is all new thinking to you, I will let you ponder this for a while before I reply further.

barley

[apostoli]

There are two aspects to a believers sonship, since believers are human beings born of earthly parents, God had no part in the seed/egg process there.

So, is it your contention that God did not create the reproductive cycles of man! I presume that isn't your intention - watch your words. I could inundate you with scripture that God had a major part in the "in the seed/egg process'. In fact it is the first prophecy = Gen 3:15!

Therefore in one sense, we had to be chosen/adopted by God.

Adoption is conditional and requires our participation, see Romans 8.

But our sonship does not end there. We are to be born again.

A temporal condition...

Being born again, born from above implies seed which is exactly what I Peter 1:23 tells us. Christians are not only chosen Ephesians 1:4 but sons of God by seed. Incorruptible seed.

See 1 Corinthians 15...

Since this is all new thinking to you, I will let you ponder this for a while before I reply further.

Nothing is new under the sun, certainly not your eisegesis (=distortion of what scripture actually says!).

[barley]

So, is it your contention that God did not create the reproductive cycles of man! I presume that isn't your intention - watch your words. I could inundate you with scripture that God had a major part in the "in the seed/egg process'. In fact it is the first prophecy = Gen 3:15!

Adoption is conditional and requires our participation, see Romans 8.

A temporal condition...

See 1 Corinthians 15...

Nothing is new under the sun, certainly not your eisegesis (=distortion of what scripture actually says!).

So, is it your contention that God did not create the reproductive cycles of man! I presume that isn't your intention - watch your words. I could inundate you with scripture that God had a major part in the "in the seed/egg process'. In fact it is the first prophecy = Gen 3:15!

If you wish to read that into it, that is your problem. But more to the point, it was your father and mother that did what it took for your mother to become pregnant with what became you.

do I have to say it? Well, to clear up any confusion. God did not have sex with your mother. Your earthly father did.

A temporal condition...

When I was born again, born from above, it was by God's incorruptible seed, by the word of God that lives and abides forever. The word that lives and abides forever gives us the standard to measure the longevity of that incorruptible seed. Incorruptible seed that endures forever incorruptible I Peter 1:23 I John 3:1-2 God has sons by seed.

Adoption is conditional and requires our participation, see Romans 8.

Yes, it does because it requires us to do Romans 10:9-10 for God to do his part. However, God chooses wisely. He does not unadopt us.

Nothing is new under the sun, certainly not your eisegesis (=distortion of what scripture actually says!).

Easy to say, but not one verse of scripture to refute what I wrote.

barley