How Can Jesus Be "GOD" and Have a "God" At The Same Time?

[justsumguy]

Except, your opinion is not supported by scriptue!

The Bride belongs to the Lamb, not to God. However, the Lamb is of God...Have a think about that...

If you are talking about my opinion that one could argue such a thing...it was supported by scripture...the verse I quoted was scripture.

[justsumguy]

(?)

Have a real think on the second clause of 1 Cor 8:6. God is not our owner or master, Jesus is! It is the meaning of Lord!

Thus we have one God the Father (originator) and one Lord Jesus Christ (our owner)....

You do realize there are many, many instances in the scriptures of Lord God? I would think there has to be at least 100.

[justsumguy]

Except, your opinion is not supported by scriptue!

The Bride belongs to the Lamb, not to God. However, the Lamb is of God...Have a think about that...

Where does the scripture say the Bride does not belong to God?
lol…that would be like me posting this verse…
"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it."
And saying God is Lord, not the lamb.

[apostoli]

Then why does Orthodoxy feel the need to weave more than this simple scripture into something they call the trinity theory? Orthodoxy also argues on who believes in this Son. It WOULD be much simpler without Orthodoxy's interpretations.

Orthordox teachings are simply responsive, they were never constructed. In the third century there were groups teaching that the Father, the Son and the Spirit were different names for the same individual (Sabellianism = one individual, three modes of existence). In the 4th century there were groups teaching three subordinate Gods, the Father created the Son, the Son created the Spirit (Arianism = three individuals, three modes of existence). The Trinity doctrine ( three individuals, one mode of existence) had long been taught in the church but hadn't been formulated, thats what the homoousia of Nicea is all about.

[apostoli]

Where does the scripture say the Bride does not belong to God?

Revelation 21:9, the bride is the Lambs wife, not God's!

lol…that would be like me posting this verse…
"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it."
And saying God is Lord, not the lamb.

You should have read on...the Lamb is the light, and the glory of God. see Rev 21:23.

God (the Father) is the Brides father-in-law, not her husband!

[apostoli]

then you should drop "trinity theology", since none of that is from scripture.

If you ever read the fathers, you'll find that every "idea" is backed up by copious amounts of scripture. Trinity theology is directly supported by scripture eg: John 16; 2 Cor 13:14; Romans 8; Jn 1:1-3, 10; Heb 1:1-3; Col 2:9 etc etc

we could easily derive "duality theology" from the same text (since father & son are mentioned many more times than "father son and holy spirit" which is in fact a rare occurrence, and never appears in the guise of "this is the thing you should worship as God, or how you should understand God." all was said was you should pray in the name of.

scripture is not a position, it is a text. the 'orthodox position' may be derived therefrom.

Binitarianism is an option, except there are texts that introduce the Spirit as essential eg: Romans 8; John 16.

_________________

Has it never occured to you that God does not want to be worshipped? In my understanding, he'd rather we had a personal relationship with him!

Have a think on Psalm 40:6 & 51:16 (and maybe Hosea 6:6), and then consider Rom 8:15.

[apostoli]

You do realize there are many, many instances in the scriptures of Lord God? I would think there has to be at least 100.

Only in English! In the original language the text reads "YHWH 'elohiym", YHWH being the proper name of the God of the Israelites. The Jews out of superstition avoided using the name and instead substituted (read) adonai (Lord).

Have a read of Psalms 110:1, where YHWH says to David's Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool...

[barnasha]

If you ever read the fathers, you'll find that every "idea" is backed up by copious amounts of scripture. Trinity theology is directly supported by scripture eg: John 16; 2 Cor 13:14; Romans 8; Jn 1:1-3, 10; Heb 1:1-3; Col 2:9 etc etc

if they didnt use scripture to support their extra-scriptural concepts, it would be hard to justify it .

Binitarianism is an option, except there are texts that introduce the Spirit as essential eg: Romans 8; John 16.

_________________

Has it never occured to you that God does not want to be worshipped? In my understanding, he'd rather we had a personal relationship with him!

this is an incredibly foreign concept to me, something i can't reconcile with the teachings in the hebrew and christian scriptures.

Have a think on Psalm 40:6 & 51:16 (and maybe Hosea 6:6), and then consider Rom 8:15.

Psalm 40:6 is talking about vain 'tokens' , it never says "forget about that 'first and most important commandment' "

[justsumguy]

Revelation 21:9, the bride is the Lambs wife, not God's!

You should have read on...the Lamb is the light, and the glory of God. see Rev 21:23.
God (the Father) is the Brides father-in-law, not her husband!

yeah...the verse doesn't say "not God's"
If you want to quote the verse...quote it. What you mean to say is that in revelation 21:9, it doesn't say that the bride is God's wife. That would be a proper statement.

I guessed since you missed the first point you missed the second.

Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

In verse 23, I think lamp might be the more literal translation in place ot the word light. That being the case, it could be argued that the Lamb is the physical emodiment of that (the glory of God) which lights the city.

[justsumguy]

Only in English! In the original language the text reads "YHWH 'elohiym", YHWH being the proper name of the God of the Israelites. The Jews out of superstition avoided using the name and instead substituted (read) adonai (Lord).

Have a read of Psalms 110:1, where YHWH says to David's Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool...

A Psalm of David. The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'

[barley]

Good question. Of course, Jesus Christ is not God, he is the son of God. So as an apple does not not fall far from the tree, even so JC has many of the characteristics of his Father and his God. We as sons of God likewise. We must learn to exercise our God given rights and abilities even as Jesus Christ did.

barley

[barley]

This question has gone on for centuries and maybe since the first century. How can you discribe an indiscribable relationship as we find between God and Jesus.

bling,

You call it indescribable.

The scriptures do a perfect and complete job of describing the intimate relationship between God and His son Jesus Christ.

The scriptures lay out everything we need to know about it.

Scripture gives great detail regarding their relationship.

You should read it sometime. If you need help with that, I will be glad to do so.

It also describes God's relationship with all His children.

Those born again of God. Romans 10:9-10. I John 3:1-3.

barley

[justsumguy]

A perfect and complete job will be being one with God and one with Christ and one as our self.
I think Satan has a problem with figuring that one out too.
For those who can't read between the lines...that would be one with each other also.
Yeah...God can really do miracles other than parting a sea.

[apostoli]

Has it never occured to you that God does not want to be worshipped? In my understanding, he'd rather we had a personal relationship with him!

this is an incredibly foreign concept to me, something i can't reconcile with the teachings in the hebrew and christian scriptures.

I find it beyond belief that you find having a personal relationship with God incredible. Have you not read that Abraham walked with God and was a friend of God's = personal relationship (?). Or that YHWH refered to Israel as an unfaithful wife = personal relationship (?) Or that all the temple sacrifices were in vain, and unwanted by God (?). Thats the OT summation. Have you not read in the NT that the Father of the Son (Jesus) is our father (by adoption) = personal relationship (?). That tribal traditions are unacceptable to God, and are done away with (?) That we are to worship with every breathe we take, in spirit and truth = personal relationship (?) etc etc etc etc

Psalm 40:6 is talking about vain 'tokens' , it never says "forget about that 'first and most important commandment' "

Fact is, the scriptures I cited all say (interpretatively) that God doesn't want to be worshiped. He wants a relationship!

Read Exodus 20:3 very carefully, its context is in verse 4-5. Verse 3-5 is talking about man made gods. Consider, Phil 2:9-10, at the least you have to accept that the Father has exalted the Son above everything...

[apostoli]

yeah...the verse doesn't say "not God's"

The verse says the bride is the Lamb's bride, God is a third party in the text.

If you want to quote the verse...quote it.

I gave you chapter & verse, I'm sure you have the detexterity to turn to the page and read it.

IWhat you mean to say is that in revelation 21:9, it doesn't say that the bride is God's wife. That would be a proper statement.

I said that God was the father-in-law. The bride is the bride of the Lamb, God's Son.

I guessed since you missed the first point you missed the second.

I think you need to get off the juice...it might improve your comprehension.

Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

In verse 23, I think lamp might be the more literal translation in place ot the word light. That being the case, it could be argued that the Lamb is the physical emodiment of that (the glory of God) which lights the city.

Something we could almost agree on. The word "light" is the appropriate translation for Rev 21:22 "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." You should become aware of Jewish idiom, the Temple is the light. Consider the number of times Jesus is said to be in the Father, and he in him, and we in them.