Science - Religion - Philosophy

[YourMaster]

Religion = hope (that you'll never live to see)

Science = results (that you see every day)

Philosophy = a long discussion about hope and results (that produce neither).

Which one wins?

[Darth Executor]

Science = results (that you see every day)

Indeed.
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[YourMaster]

I was thinking more along the lines of refrigerators, water treatment, medicine, the techology that's saving miners buried a half mile underground, etc. If science is used as a weapon that's not sciences fault (anymore than a stick used to kill someone is a trees fault).

[Hamster]

Religion = hope (that you'll never live to see)

I'd say that people see the results of religion throughout their lives (positive and negative), you can't really reduce religious experience to just feelings about the afterlife. As for philosophy, can you imagine science without a sound philosophy undergirding it? For example, ethical philosophy?

[Tassman]

Indeed.
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Is this horror all you think science has contributed to civilization? Really!

And what has religion contributed to civilization? It has a shocking history. One only has to look at the horrors of the religious wars, pogroms, crusades, jihads, persecutions, inquisitions, witch hunts. We have seen these things in the past and we see them today. Your horror picture would fit very nicely with this lot.

ALL religion, is divisive by its very nature. If one side "knows" it is right, then the other side must be wrong - people fight and die over religious holy places e.g. Jerusalem and India and provide justification for discrimination against those who don’t conform. It has a history of cruelty and persecution toward those of different or religion or no religion.

Yes, on the plus side, religion provides comfort to many people, has inspired much great art, architecture, and music and uses it organizational structure to provide charitable, medical, and educational institutions – although often with strings attached, especially in the mission fields.

But, despite your non-generous assessment of science, you were only able to disseminate it thanks to science. Its contribution to civilization includes such benefits to our lives as computers, cell phones, TV...all electronic devices.

As well, science has extended our life-spans and improved general health by developing medicines, antibiotics, medical procedures, medical knowledge, and orthopedic and other surgery! Plus the advancement of agriculture and farming techniques, farm equipment and animal husbandry!

As well science has advanced our knowledge to an enormous degree, often actively resisted by religion, in the development of scientific theories such as Electromagnetism, Quantum Mechanics, Gravity and Evolution...all of which greatly advance the body of knowledge and allow for prediction to further advanced knowledge.

The knowledge and benefits of science is essential for civilization, whereas religion is an optional extra for those afraid to die.

[Steve007]

I actually don't think religion is necessarily good, and there are times when it is a very bad thing. Not only are there a huge number of false religions, but you also have your cults and religious nuts out there.

[Oolon Colluphid]

Religion = hope (that you'll never live to see)

Well, hope isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Besides Dawkins's belief in the inevitable progress of human reason with the aid of science is a kind of hope.

Don't know the context of the gruesome picture you've posted Darth, but I doubt that the poor child was caught in the crossfire of a dispute over whether or not it's meaningful to talk about a time before the big bang.

[MaxVel]

I was thinking more along the lines of refrigerators, water treatment, medicine, the techology that's saving miners buried a half mile underground, etc. If science is used as a weapon that's not sciences fault (anymore than a stick used to kill someone is a trees fault).

You mean if some useful bit of technology is a result of science, then that's because science is good; and if some harmful bit of technology is a result of science, then that's because the person using it is bad?

Sounds like you're special pleading in favour of science.

[CodewordConduit]

Don't know the context of the gruesome picture you've posted Darth, but I doubt that the poor child was caught in the crossfire of a dispute over whether or not it's meaningful to talk about a time before the big bang.

Yeah using the picture that way was not cool. A photograph of an actual human being going through what can only be unbelievable pain and excruciating mental distress, in order to essentially troll on the internet.

If I found out that someone had done that with an image of my child... For the purposes of a ridiculous debate like this, as well... Urgh. Well out of order.

[Mark Little]

Indeed.
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That picture was perhaps the result of a religious crusade of some kind. That was what you were implying, wasn't it?

Science is a tool. Like any tool, whether it is good or bad depends on who wields it. It has presented us with many destructive weapons. Having said that, the rise of science is what has seen the average lifespan of Joe & Jane Citizen extended. Not necessarily high cost science like CAT scanners, but the basics like understanding hygiene.

Philosophy is also a tool and most abused by people who do not really understand it, and usually attempting to prove the unprovable. Useful for understanding that all our perceptions are built on a pack of cards (pre-suppositions), but this is often lost on that group of people who can see that this is true for everyone but themselves.

Religion is also a mixed bag. There is not doubt that people involved in religions (of all types) do many great things, but equally some do the most horrendous things in the name of their religion. The most serious flaw with religion is that it makes some people forget that they are human and can be wrong just like everyone else. Because they think they are right, they should be able to force their ideas onto everyone else at any cost. This kind of thinking is not the exclusive purvey of religion, but they are giving it a good nudge at this period of history.

Which one wins? Let's hope none of them do and they can coexist as they should.

[nightbringer]

Religion = hope (that you'll never live to see)

Science = results (that you see every day)

Philosophy = a long discussion about hope and results (that produce neither).

Which one wins?

A thoughtful intelligent argument that will only produce fruitful dialogue. Thank you.

[Tassman]

You mean if some useful bit of technology is a result of science, then that's because science is good; and if some harmful bit of technology is a result of science, then that's because the person using it is bad?

Sounds like you're special pleading in favour of science.

No it doesn't. There is no special pleading.

Science is merely a methodology devised by man. It is neither good nor bad in and of itself but is used for the acquisition of new knowledge based upon physical evidence using observations, hypotheses and deductions. It is able to develop testable, falsifiable theories - theories that can also make predictions. Science has proved to be the most successful means of acquiring knowledge in history and has been enormously beneficial for humanity.

Religions have also been devised by man. There have been many religions and all of them, by definition, have been “true” and all the others consequently have been "wrong". In the name of the various gods it has been considered the sacred duty of the “right” religion to beat the crap out of the wrong religion if the “wrong religion” threatens the prerogatives of the “right religion”. We see it around us even today. As well, because they already posses the “truth” religions tend to discourage independent thinking and reject any knowledge that threatens established beliefs - regardless of the tested and peer reviewed evidence supporting it. Evolution springs to mind. Overall, it can be reasonably said that religion is a health hazard and detrimental to mankind..

[Jaecp]

You mean if some useful bit of technology is a result of science, then that's because science is good; and if some harmful bit of technology is a result of science, then that's because the person using it is bad?

Sounds like you're special pleading in favour of science.

If a refrigerator fell on you, is your broken bone sciences fault?

DE Posted a picture of someone injured by, I assume, a landmine.

The relevant detail is why someone is injured, not how. You can kill, maim and destroy in thousands of ways, but the motivation, the motivation, is key.

[shunyadragon]

Religion = hope (that you'll never live to see)

Science = results (that you see every day)

Philosophy = a long discussion about hope and results (that produce neither).

Which one wins?

Baha'i Faith with the harmony of science, religion and philosophy..

Also . . .

. . . the philosophy of science has been an important foundation for science since the Greeks,

. . . much of modern science we so not see at all.

[shunyadragon]

Indeed.
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not science.