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Science fiction horror that is NOT b-grade

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    well the "B" stands for "budget" so if you throw enough money at a movie and hire good enough actors and have great special effects, you can turn any B movie plot into a "B"lockbuster.

    but I stand by the claim that there are not many original plots in sci-fi/horror.
    I hope I didn't sound like I was taking a jab at you when I "most film critics, and general viewers consider [Alien] above b-grade."

    My observation is that most critics/viewers do seem to give Alien more respect than the typical monster movie, but I wasn't trying to snidely dismiss your opinion.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by I am Ivo, hear me roar View Post
      I suppose that was primarily what I had in mind, although I'm open to any films that blend the two genres.

      I personally think the difference between a-grade and b-grade sometimes has more to do with execution than premise. As Sparko points out, Alien has a b-movie premise; however, most film critics, and general viewers consider it above b-grade due to the artfulness of its writing, acting, set design, and directing.

      So, for me, a movie can have a wonky premise and still not be b-grade if it:

      1.Takes its premise seriously and doesn't play it off as a joke.

      2. Gives its characters actual depth and characterization.

      3. Has smart writing, or at the very least, writing that's not overtly stupid and contrived.

      4. Is competent in its direction and special effects.
      Originally posted by I am Ivo, hear me roar View Post
      Event Horizon is comes close but, IMHO, its execution goes off the rails in the last act after the revelation of where the ship has been.
      Ok, that gives me a bit more to work with. I agree about Event Horizon by the way. I've seen some decent fan edits that try to pull the thing together. Paul W. S. Anderson is sort of the poor man's John Carpenter. While working on smaller budgets than Alien, of the films I mentioned I think Pandorum and Pitch Black will fill the niche you're specifically looking for. Pandorum was critically panned, which I don't quite get. I thought it was well crafted, and looked great. Yeah, it's a bit predictable, but everything's already been done. It stars Dennis Quaid, so it has a relatively big name actor in it. Pitch Black was arguably Vin Diesel's turning point role. A smallish budget film that really resonated with audiences. Screamers is a bit cheaper than the other two, but it's got the same writer as Alien (Dan O'Bannon) and stars the always fantastic Peter Weller. A sequel will star other alien alum Lance Henriksen, but I've never seen it. The film's got a bit of a cult following, and I think it's deserved. Of all the other films I mentioned I think only "They Live" plays its premise with a smirk on its face. The rest take the premise seriously.

      Budget-wise, taking in consideration inflation, I'm thinking from most expensive to least it'll probably go something like this:


      Lifeforce (also written by Dan O'Bannon)
      The Thing
      Predator
      Event Horizon
      Pandorum
      The Road
      Pitch Black
      Screamers
      The Mist
      Videodrome
      The Crazies
      Altered States
      Scanners
      Cloverfield
      Soylent Green
      Night of the Comet
      10 Cloverfield Lane
      Attack the Block
      Hardware
      Timecrimes
      Cube
      Beyond the Black Rainbow
      +1
      Tetsuo
      Coherence

      If we throw in Zymologist's recommendations Prometheus would easily be at the very top, and In the Mouth of Madness would be in the middle. Anything below Cloverfield you start getting into pretty thin budgets, and production drops pretty dramatically. The main issue is that none of these films look quite as amazing as Alien even with bigger budgets. Alien (and Aliens) set itself apart because of the happen chance fluke of a team that had already spent much time together for Dune, meeting the super talent of Ridley Scott early in his epic career. There are some other fantastic directors in my list including Cronenberg, Carpenter, and Darabont, but none of their films quite match Scott's brilliance. Maybe The Thing comes close, and Pitch Black is about as close to Alien as you'll get, and not be part of the franchise, but the rest are going to be quite different experiences. Hope you find something close to what you're looking for.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        I didnt say all scifi fit that mold. Just most sci-fi/Horror movies. Ones mostly involving monsters.

        as far as Event Horizon, its been a while since I saw it, but wasn't it basically the same plot as "alien chases and kills people on a space ship, a couple survive but the monster isn't really dead"?

        They Live was indeed a good movie that didn't fit the mold. 10 cloverfield lane was just an odd movie, more like a twilight zone movie. Cube fit a third plot line: People trapped by evil entity and need to work together to escape (e.g. Saw, nightmare on elm street) - Altered states: Scientist delves where he shouldn't, becomes a god and therefore the monster who tries to kill everyone (Lawnmower man) - Scanners was a good one. Coherence - didn't see that. Neither videodrome or tetsuo, the road, and beyond the black rainbow, or time killers.
        Event Horizon's plot is more about an evil entity and the madness it produces among a ship's crew members. Not quite the same thing as being chased down by a monster, but eh. Most film genres have premises that have been repeated ad nauseum. There are only so many stories. How many romance films are based on Romeo and Juliet? Or more specifically, how many romcoms have been based on the Ugly Duckling? Most action films have similar premises, as do many Westerns (Seven Samurai type narratives). Most any genre can fold down to a number of basic repeated formulas. I think you have to sort of look past that though, or else you'll end up comparing every film to a better one (which I spend a lot of time doing anyways, especially for the horror genre).

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        • #19
          Originally posted by I am Ivo, hear me roar View Post
          I hope I didn't sound like I was taking a jab at you when I "most film critics, and general viewers consider [Alien] above b-grade."

          My observation is that most critics/viewers do seem to give Alien more respect than the typical monster movie, but I wasn't trying to snidely dismiss your opinion.
          No. I liked Alien.

          In fact I like Sci-Fi B movies. Me and my brother used to watch the old 1950s B movies late at night and laugh our heads off. One of my favorites is Queen of Outer Space


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          • #20
            Adrift's list is excellent. I'd add two more titles for consideration: Invasion of the Body Snatchers and The Fly. I haven't seen them in years so I don't know how well they hold up at this point. I'm talking the 70s-80s era remakes. I haven't seen the originals.

            I'd also add in X-Files for anyone younger starting out in this, though most of you are ancient, crusty farts.

            fwiw,
            guacamole
            "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
            Hear my cry, hear my shout,
            Save me, save me"

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              I didnt say all scifi fit that mold. Just most sci-fi/Horror movies. Ones mostly involving monsters.

              as far as Event Horizon, its been a while since I saw it, but wasn't it basically the same plot as "alien chases and kills people on a space ship, a couple survive but the monster isn't really dead"?

              They Live was indeed a good movie that didn't fit the mold. 10 cloverfield lane was just an odd movie, more like a twilight zone movie. Cube fit a third plot line: People trapped by evil entity and need to work together to escape (e.g. Saw, nightmare on elm street) - Altered states: Scientist delves where he shouldn't, becomes a god and therefore the monster who tries to kill everyone (Lawnmower man) - Scanners was a good one. Coherence - didn't see that. Neither videodrome or tetsuo, the road, and beyond the black rainbow, or time killers.
              This thread should be renamed "The horror spoilers thread".
              We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
              - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
              In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
              Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

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              • #22
                Originally posted by guacamole View Post
                Adrift's list is excellent. I'd add two more titles for consideration: Invasion of the Body Snatchers and The Fly. I haven't seen them in years so I don't know how well they hold up at this point. I'm talking the 70s-80s era remakes. I haven't seen the originals.

                I'd also add in X-Files for anyone younger starting out in this, though most of you are ancient, crusty farts.

                fwiw,
                guacamole
                Oh duh. How did I forget those two classics? That's sad. Especially The Fly when I've already mentioned a couple other Cronenberg films. I was going to throw in eXistenZ at one point, but I don't think it's quite "horror" enough.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  This is really going to come down to what you mean by "science-fiction" and what you mean by "horror". Are you referring to anything to do with aliens? Are you referring to those films that take place primarily in outer space? Are you referring to mad scientists who create evil diseases or Frankenstein-type monsters? Are you referring to post-apocalyptic? I can give you a list of some of my favorite sci-fi horrors, but depending on who you ask, some of these will probably be considered "b" because they were made on cheaper budgets, are indie films, or because they didn't do that great in their original release. Some modern audiences may no longer consider all of them "horror" (things that scared audiences then don't scare them today). Assuming you're referring to films in the vein of Alien where they take place in outer-space or on alien planets, some of my favorites include:

                  Event Horizon.
                  Pandorum.
                  Pitch Black.
                  Screamers.

                  Good horror films that deal with aliens on earth include:

                  The Thing.
                  The Mist.
                  Predator.
                  Cloverfield Lane and (in my opinion, the better film) 10 Cloverfield Lane.
                  Lifeforce.
                  Attack the Block.
                  They Live.

                  Good non-alien sci-fi horror might include:

                  Cube.
                  Altered States.
                  Hardware.

                  Films that I think can be technically described as "sci-fi", but don't have to do with the future, aliens, technology or the like might include:

                  Scanners.
                  Coherence (which is really low-budget/indie, so be aware).
                  +1.
                  Night of the Comet.
                  The Crazies.

                  If you like time travel films (which I personally hate) then there's always the popular "Timecrimes". If you want a great, but depressing post-apocalyptic film there's "The Road" or "Soylent Green". If you're looking for sci-fi horror that is completely weird, surreal or out there there's:

                  Videodrome.
                  Tetsuo The Iron Man.
                  Beyond the Black Rainbow.

                  A few of the above films would likely be regarded as straight up "b", but I can probably narrow down the list if you can describe exactly what you're looking for.
                  Some of those like Night of the Comet and to a lesser extent They Live are more comedy than anything else.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Some of those like Night of the Comet and to a lesser extent They Live are more comedy than anything else.
                    It's been AGES since I seen Night of the Comet. 12 year old me thought it was super creepy stuff, so I'll take your word on it. I do remember it being pretty lowbrow-ish though. They Live definitely has its camp moments. Like I said in post #17, "Of all the other films I mentioned I think only 'They Live' plays its premise with a smirk on its face. The rest take the premise seriously." But you know what, the concept (at least for the first half of the film) is so good it's worth the recommendation.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                      It's been AGES since I seen Night of the Comet. 12 year old me thought it was super creepy stuff, so I'll take your word on it. I do remember it being pretty lowbrow-ish though. They Live definitely has its camp moments. Like I said in post #17, "Of all the other films I mentioned I think only 'They Live' plays its premise with a smirk on its face. The rest take the premise seriously." But you know what, the concept (at least for the first half of the film) is so good it's worth the recommendation.
                      Two over-the-top valley girls who's trip to loot the mall after everyone is killed is interrupted by some grody to the max quasi-zombies. Still, I actually thought it was a kind of fun film.

                      As for They Live, the actually fairly sharp social commentary kept it from becoming too silly. It was a great vehicle for "Rowdy" Roddy Piper

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The need a sequel to They Live.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          The need a sequel to They Live.
                          If Hollywood made a remake undoubtedly the evil aliens would have orangish "tans" and a really bad comb over.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            If Hollywood made a remake undoubtedly the evil aliens would have orangish "tans" and a really bad comb over.
                            Have you noticed how Trump's hair suddenly went from orange to gray once he was elected? I don't think it was the stress. I think he either stopped dying his hair or dyed it gray.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Have you noticed how Trump's hair suddenly went from orange to gray once he was elected? I don't think it was the stress. I think he either stopped dying his hair or dyed it gray.
                              It used to be pretty yellow but now looks more dirty blonde than gray to me.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                It used to be pretty yellow but now looks more dirty blonde than gray to me.
                                Before:
                                160503_POL_trump-president.jpg.CROP.promo-xlarge2.jpg

                                Now:

                                Comment

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