Demons

[JimL]

This is probably a silly question, but do christians, even in this day and age believe in demons, that they are responsible for mental illness? When Jesus heals the mentally ill it is always by way of casting out demons, which then wander off to find some other body to live in. I can understand holding to such beliefs two thousand years ago, but do christians still believe that demons are the cause of mental illness today?

[franktalk]

Sickness can come from a spirit or it can come from the fallen world. So not all sickness comes from evil spirits. But some sickness does come from demons. It is common today as it was during the time of Christ. We as Christians ignore demonic possession because we are too involved with the natural world and have allowed ourselves to follow the flesh and not the spirit.

If you truly want to know about this subject then read "The handbook for Spiritual warfare" it will open your eyes if they can be opened.

[JimL]

Sickness can come from a spirit or it can come from the fallen world. So not all sickness comes from evil spirits. But some sickness does come from demons. It is common today as it was during the time of Christ. We as Christians ignore demonic possession because we are too involved with the natural world and have allowed ourselves to follow the flesh and not the spirit.

So, some mental illness is caused by demons, but sometimes it is a naturally occurring condition? How do you distinguish between the two?

[lilpixieofterror]

Jesus casting our demons does not = all mental illness is caused by demons. It doesn't follow.

[franktalk]

So, some mental illness is caused by demons, but sometimes it is a naturally occurring condition? How do you distinguish between the two?

First of all possession normally occurs in a Christian. Satan does not care about people who are lost. Then a path had to be made to allow the demon to enter. This can be done a number of ways. Next the person will have to want the sickness removed. The easy way is to have the sick person pray and ask to be healed. But they must forgive everyone who has ever sinned against them. To hold onto hate or anger gives the demon permission to be there. This can take days even with help. Then through faith and the power of Christ they ask to be healed of the sickness and to have all evil spirits removed. I do this on a regular basis. Then we must place our spiritual armor on and ask for the Holy Spirit to fill us leaving no room for another. Then ask for the blood of Christ to cover you which will protect you.

None of these ideas are new. People don't do them because they pick and choose what to believe. Most do not believe in spirits just flesh. If after cleaning house of evil spirits the sickness remains then it is of God or of the fallen world. Either way it would not be demonic. Now if the demon has God's Okay to be there it will not leave. Paul had one of these.

Do not play around with this subject. You can open a doorway by accident and get really messed up. Be real careful what you ask for. If you have someone you know who you think might be possessed then pray like crazy with them.

[Tassman]

Sickness can come from a spirit or it can come from the fallen world. So not all sickness comes from evil spirits. But some sickness does come from demons. It is common today as it was during the time of Christ. We as Christians ignore demonic possession because we are too involved with the natural world and have allowed ourselves to follow the flesh and not the spirit.

If you truly want to know about this subject then read "The handbook for Spiritual warfare" it will open your eyes if they can be opened.

And you “know” this how, exactly?

There are better ways to explain mental illness than demon possession. This was an understandable, but very primitive, attempt to explain the otherwise inexplicable before we had the benefits of modern medicine and psychiatry. We now know that mental illness is an organic dysfunction of the brain just as we now know that epilepsy results in damage to the parietal lobes causing a sense of great ‘spiritual awareness’ just as we have long known about germs as a major factor in bodily illness.

Furthermore, such beliefs can result in great harm if the modern techniques for treating mental and/or bodily dysfunction are ignored in lieu of some form of faith-healing or exorcism . The last bastion of flourishing religion, Africa, is also the last bastion of primitive religious practises barely distinguishable from superstition and it seems that you approve of such an approach.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle530085.ece

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...can.html?cat=9

http://www.monitor.co.ug/OpEd/Commen...2/-/a2tbglz/-/

[franktalk]

Tassman,

You place words in my mouth I never said. I fully support the medical profession and its ability to help people. But as you know if people do not want to get better there is a good chance they will not. Now extend that a hundred fold by an unseen influence. In this case if there was found a way to remove that outside influence it would help the ill person. You can believe what ever you wish. And I can believe what I wish. I offer no proof to convince you to believe something you can't touch. But like the wind there are invisible forces acting in the world whether you choose to believe or not.

I am sure that to you it makes no sense what so ever that good and evil spirits exist and influence our lives. On its face it is a silly story and one that should disappear from history because it is so nuts. But it has existed for as long as we have history. Why do you think that is true? It is not due to ignorance. Many who believe in the Bible are smart people. So why does this odd idea keep on going with a life of its own?

You can choose to believe that the universe is all that there is. Or you can choose to believe that there is a much more powerful spiritual existence which caused this material existence. That belief takes a leap of faith which I have made. You can of course choose not to make that leap. But we sit on equal ground. You have no proof it does not exist and I offer no proof that it does. All I can say is that those who make that leap are changed in a real way which you can see and measure. Now you have to ask yourself where did that change come from? If you say that it came from a spirit world then you would agree with me, but I suspect you will not agree with me. So let us say that the change came from within the person and their belief modified the persons behavior. Now can you make the next step and say that the health of someone is affected by ones emotions? If so then do people who have more stable emotions have a better shot at health?

If a belief in a Creator helps a person why do you stand in the way. Are you so wrapped up in your own world view that you wish to destroy another's faith and hope to support your own self worth? Do you need to conquer another's ideas so your ideas have more value in your mind?

Of course you could say the same thing to me. But look at the fruit of what you say. Where I wish to bring hope and spiritual strength you wish to bring someone to the idea that there is no outside help and all of this is for nothing. The fruit from your tree is bad. Even if you think it is truth.

[headheart]

So, some mental illness is caused by demons, but sometimes it is a naturally occurring condition? How do you distinguish between the two?

I have dealt with on two threads ( in the past ) and apart from the brilliant work of Dr. Richard Ganz and Dr Jay E. Adams regarding the treatment of a disordered personality, I think you might find Dr. Kurt Koch's writings quite insightful, especially Occult Bondage & Deliverance. There is another Professor at Biola University, who teaches on this subject, but I forget his name right now.

Sincerely,
Eric J. Sawyer

[showmeproof]

And you “know” this how, exactly?

There are better ways to explain mental illness than demon possession. This was an understandable, but very primitive, attempt to explain the otherwise inexplicable before we had the benefits of modern medicine and psychiatry. We now know that mental illness is an organic dysfunction of the brain just as we now know that epilepsy results in damage to the parietal lobes causing a sense of great ‘spiritual awareness’ just as we have long known about germs as a major factor in bodily illness.

Furthermore, such beliefs can result in great harm if the modern techniques for treating mental and/or bodily dysfunction are ignored in lieu of some form of faith-healing or exorcism . The last bastion of flourishing religion, Africa, is also the last bastion of primitive religious practises barely distinguishable from superstition and it seems that you approve of such an approach.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle530085.ece

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...can.html?cat=9

http://www.monitor.co.ug/OpEd/Commen...2/-/a2tbglz/-/

I agree with what you are saying. However, I have to quibble over your gloss on epilepsy. Epilepsy is not just one dysfunction. The specific epilepsy you seem to be referring to is Temporal Lobe Epilepsy. However this is but one of many forms of epilepsy. Each form has its own unique cause.

[Sparko]

First of all possession normally occurs in a Christian. Satan does not care about people who are lost.

Say what?????

Show me one place in the bible where a believer was possessed by a demon.

Believers have the holy spirit. Can a demon share a body with the Holy Spirit? I don't think so.

[Adrift]

There is another Professor at Biola University, who teaches on this subject, but I forget his name right now.

Dr. Kevin Lewis. He teaches a course called Satanology & Demonology at Biola.

[headheart]

Dr. Kevin Lewis. He teaches a course called Satanology & Demonology at Biola.

Thanks, brother!

[JimL]

First of all possession normally occurs in a Christian. Satan does not care about people who are lost. Then a path had to be made to allow the demon to enter. This can be done a number of ways. Next the person will have to want the sickness removed. The easy way is to have the sick person pray and ask to be healed. But they must forgive everyone who has ever sinned against them. To hold onto hate or anger gives the demon permission to be there. This can take days even with help. Then through faith and the power of Christ they ask to be healed of the sickness and to have all evil spirits removed. I do this on a regular basis. Then we must place our spiritual armor on and ask for the Holy Spirit to fill us leaving no room for another. Then ask for the blood of Christ to cover you which will protect you.

None of these ideas are new. People don't do them because they pick and choose what to believe. Most do not believe in spirits just flesh. If after cleaning house of evil spirits the sickness remains then it is of God or of the fallen world. Either way it would not be demonic. Now if the demon has God's Okay to be there it will not leave. Paul had one of these.

Do not play around with this subject. You can open a doorway by accident and get really messed up. Be real careful what you ask for. If you have someone you know who you think might be possessed then pray like crazy with them.

So, if it is not a demon then it is God? What do you mean exactly? Do you mean that if it is not an evil spirit that is possessing one, causing them to suffer, then it is Gods spirit that is possessing them, and causing them to suffer?

[franktalk]

So, if it is not a demon then it is God? What do you mean exactly? Do you mean that if it is not an evil spirit that is possessing one, causing them to suffer, then it is Gods spirit that is possessing them, and causing them to suffer?

Everything including evil is in some way connected back to the Creator of all things. But we have free will to make our own choices, even evil spirits do. So God has set the stage for everything to occur but on an individual decision He may or may not be responsible. God has at various times used evil for His own purposes. He may bring on such woe that a person will turn to God for help. Humans being idiots tend not to consider the big questions when times are good.

Now God designed us and we have an expiration date. All of us die. So looking to micro manage exactly when and exactly for what reason is a game of fools. So if one wants to blame God for all of the detail of death then we must also blame God for all of the happiness in life as well. But at some point free will goes away and God turns into a puppeteer. This is not the case so we have to accept that some things in life just turn out one way verses another. It is a human trait to assign blame for everything.

[franktalk]

Say what?????

Show me one place in the bible where a believer was possessed by a demon.

Believers have the holy spirit. Can a demon share a body with the Holy Spirit? I don't think so.

In prophecy Satan is thrown into a lake of fire. If Satan can break the Word of God then the prophecy may not come true. That is what motivates him.

And of course someone can believe in God and have a demon. Have you ever heard of Paul of Tarsus?

2 Cor 12

7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Unless you wish to argue the meaning of "messenger of Satan".

Now the bigger issue is why did God leave the demon there.