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Thread: Torture

  1. #1
    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Torture

    One of the rebuttals used against the pro-torture crowd is that torture is cruel. I agree to the extent that I think a good way to determine if something is 'torture' or if it is 'interrogation' is to restrict methods to those that the interrogators are willing to endure themselves. In short, if you want to water board someone for 15 minutes you have to endure that yourself before you can administer it to others. I think nothing would solidify the definition of the term quicker than such a requirement.

    That all aside, the anti-death penalty people and the anti-torture crowd would allow for someone to spend life in prison which to me seems like a pretty major contradiction. Given the choice between 20 years in a 5x8 cell with rapists or that of spending a weekend being denied sleep and a few water boarding sessions what would you select? I'm not claiming either is a cake walk.

    The point is that I think putting an adult in a 5x8 cell for the rest of his life, surrounded by animals, away from nature, with nothing productive to do and nothing to accomplish is the absolutely worst sort of torture I can imagine. The constant fear of beating, of rape, of other degradations with no beauty, no freedom, no options - the phrase, "Give me liberty or give me death" springs to mind.

    In short, I think the anti-death penalty and anti-torture people advocate something much worse than death.
    I don't necessarily thing they're choosing the merciful option here.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

  2. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    I amened your last tthree paragraphs. Beyond that I am not in favor of torture, even as your first paragraph limits it.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh Gerbil View Post

    The point is that I think putting an adult in a 5x8 cell for the rest of his life, surrounded by animals, away from nature, with nothing productive to do and nothing to accomplish is the absolutely worst sort of torture I can imagine.
    sun_ajrofpbyggymdawy.jpg

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    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
    The point is that I think putting an adult in a 5x8 cell for the rest of his life, surrounded by animals, away from nature, with nothing productive to do and nothing to accomplish is the absolutely worst sort of torture I can imagine.
    That sounds more like an argument for prison reform than an argument in favour of the death penalty. Many people have been productive and accomplished while imprisoned - Wilde, Paine, Hope, Mallory and Cervantes, for example.
    Mountain Man destroys his own argument:
    "[Glenn Miller's essay] has more than enough facts and data to support the conclusion that Luke's history was bang-on accurate with regards to who conducted the census and when."
    "...there are historical points on which the Bible can't be tested for one reason or another, for instance, cases where the data is incomplete, such as the Lukan census which has a number of plausible solutions but is, at worst, untestable due to a lack of conclusive evidence."

  6. Amen Psychic Missile, Starlight amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    That sounds more like an argument for prison reform than an argument in favour of the death penalty. Many people have been productive and accomplished while imprisoned - Wilde, Paine, Hope, Mallory and Cervantes, for example.
    I think we can agree the world would be better off without those guys.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

  8. Amen Darth Executor amen'd this post.
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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
    I think we can agree the world would be better off without those guys.
    the apostle John.

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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    I'm not really using it as an argument for the death penalty.
    I just think denying the death penalty for a more humane treatment of 20 years to life in a rape box is a really funny form of sympathy.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

  11. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Isolation isn't fun either.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    Isolation isn't fun either.
    Right.

    So people who are against torture will allow isolation or imprisonment for decades.
    I think it could be argued that corporeal punishment may be more humane in some instances.
    I think there are some incoherent arguments being made.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

  14. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Or give nonviolent criminals a choice! Ten years of prison, or twenty lashes of a whip.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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