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Thread: Write a Constitution

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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Write a Constitution

    If you could write your own Constitution what would it contain?
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    I would write I was the dictator of the world. Although I guess if I were in a position to dictate the constitution I'd already be a dictator, so...

    More seriously, Canada wrote a new one recently, you could steal theirs I guess.

    This has actually been a non-theoretical question for me, because my country doesn't have a constitution, and the political party I'm a member of has been talking about trying to draft one. A small group I was in was spit-balling ideas and my points to them were:
    1. I don't think a constitution is a good idea:
    (a) When I look at how constitutions work in practice for other countries what happens is that they inherently give huge power to the judiciary to thwart democratic law, because the judges have final say on whether things are constitutional and thus the can throw out the laws created by the people, and are thus constitutions are inherently undemocratic.
    (b) They seem to cause scope-creep. Some activist judge(s) will get a creative idea into their head that article X in the constitution means Y, and therefore forever after that thing the judge has decided will be law regardless of whether the creators of the constitution thought it was saying this. e.g. in the US the courts have decided that restricting corruption is unconstitutional using the creative reasoning that money is speech and that free speech is a protected right; the courts have also US decided that the second amendment that says the states can regulate firearms means that the states can't regulate firearms; the courts have decided a right to abortion is mysteriously somewhere in the constitution; in Canada after the recent constitutional change the judges managed to find a right to euthanasia somewhere in the constitution even though those who wrote and approved the constitution didn't really think one was there.
    (c) Constitutions around the world seem to either be too hard to change to the point where they become fossilized due to needing largely unattainable super-majorities (e.g. US constitution) or too easy to change (e.g. Alabama, Japan) and there doesn't seem to be a happy medium.

    2. People in the small-group were seeing it as a chance to put all sorts of creative environmental rights into the constitution, such as granting environmental features human rights, and my points were:
    (a) A constitution is not a place to be experimenting with weird and novel ideas, or a way to bypass the normal legal process by writing your wildest fantasies into law. Don't do in a constitution what you should be doing in a law.
    (b) Don't give the activist judges ideas and free reign by putting heaps of vague idealistic statements in about the environment, animal rights, and whatever else crosses your mind, because who knows what will come out of the judicial sausage grinder, and by the time the judges are done, parliament won't be able to make laws on any subject without them being judged unconstitutional because the constitution (and it's creative judicial interpretations) will cover everything already.
    (c) So Keep-It-Simple-Stupid. Put in the constitution the absolute minimum. Have a literal one paragraph constitution of "Our country is a democracy which works as follows... with elections every X years, initiated by Y...". And if you absolutely must put something else in there then put the current Human Rights Act in there which is detailed and specific, but don't under any circumstances be vague and general or it will let the judges loose.

  3. Amen Meh Gerbil, Carrikature amen'd this post.
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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    I pretty much like our Constitution as is. I just wish they would not keep trying to "reinterpret" it to mean things it doesn't say.

    I guess my wish would be that the Founding Fathers would have foreseen this problem and explained what they meant in an unequivocal manner.

    Oh and term limits for congress and for the judiciary, including the supreme court. 10 years max.

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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I would write I was the dictator of the world.
    You answered the question exactly and I agree with all of your points.

    Given what we've seen in the USA I have to say that your critic of the abuse by the judiciary is accurate.
    I think the intended balance was to be introduced by the legislature but they seem hesitant to do anything constructive.
    Of course, with the judiciary, a single judge can do so much damage - enough where it would take a legislature years to undo all of it.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I pretty much like our Constitution as is. I just wish they would not keep trying to "reinterpret" it to mean things it doesn't say.

    I guess my wish would be that the Founding Fathers would have foreseen this problem and explained what they meant in an unequivocal manner.

    Oh and term limits for congress and for the judiciary, including the supreme court. 10 years max.
    I don't see how term limits help.
    Exchanging one set of ideologue judges for another set doesn't change the core problem.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
    If you could write your own Constitution what would it contain?
    6,6,6.

    Though possibly less if that would affect my other stats.
    Mountain Man destroys his own argument:
    "[Glenn Miller's essay] has more than enough facts and data to support the conclusion that Luke's history was bang-on accurate with regards to who conducted the census and when."
    "...there are historical points on which the Bible can't be tested for one reason or another, for instance, cases where the data is incomplete, such as the Lukan census which has a number of plausible solutions but is, at worst, untestable due to a lack of conclusive evidence."

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    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Also, does anyone else liken the constitutional amendment process to Nomic?
    Mountain Man destroys his own argument:
    "[Glenn Miller's essay] has more than enough facts and data to support the conclusion that Luke's history was bang-on accurate with regards to who conducted the census and when."
    "...there are historical points on which the Bible can't be tested for one reason or another, for instance, cases where the data is incomplete, such as the Lukan census which has a number of plausible solutions but is, at worst, untestable due to a lack of conclusive evidence."

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    tWebber Meh Gerbil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    6,6,6.

    Though possibly less if that would affect my other stats.
    Nerd.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I pretty much like our Constitution as is. I just wish they would not keep trying to "reinterpret" it to mean things it doesn't say.

    I guess my wish would be that the Founding Fathers would have foreseen this problem and explained what they meant in an unequivocal manner.

    Oh and term limits for congress and for the judiciary, including the supreme court. 10 years max.
    Term limits for a Supreme Court would likely mean a very compliant court for whoever is president at the time.

    I'm always still in trouble again

  12. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.

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