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Church & State Case At Supreme Court

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  • Church & State Case At Supreme Court

    Here is the case in a nut shell:

    Trinity Lutheran Church operates a preschool in Missouri. In 2012, Trinity applied for a playground resurfacing grant from the state. Obtaining the grant would allow Trinity to receive reimbursement for resurfacing its playground with a safer pour-in-place rubber surface made from recycled tires.

    The state awarded 14 grants that year, but while Trinity’s application was ranked 5th out of 44 applications, the church was denied. Missouri determined that its state establishment clause forbids it from providing an available benefit to children—a safe playground surface—simply because the playground is on church property.

    http://www.scotusblog.com/2017/04/ar...theran-merits/
    This looks like religious discrimination to me and the decision could have far reaching consequences.
    Last edited by seer; 04-20-2017, 09:42 AM.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    That seems like a no-brainer from a safety point of view-the state has a vested interest in providing a safe environment for children whether or not that environment is held by a religious non-profit or not. I do worry about the "strings-attached" problems that could face religious organizations that accept state or federal money, and who then find themselves forced to accommodate more demands from the government.

    This could go either way, imo.

    fwiw,
    guacamole
    "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
    Hear my cry, hear my shout,
    Save me, save me"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by guacamole View Post
      That seems like a no-brainer from a safety point of view-the state has a vested interest in providing a safe environment for children whether or not that environment is held by a religious non-profit or not.
      Handle-turning of the Lemon factors, surely? I'd say it passes, but I'm not an activist judge
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • #4
        1: The court with rule against the church.
        2: A week later CPS will shut down the church for having an unsafe playground.
        3: Six months later the church will face lawsuits from couples claiming that if they'd of had kids instead of aborting, and if those kids went to that church, and if the kids would have used that playground that the child may have been hurt and those images of hurt children have traumatized them.
        4: The church will lose that lawsuit, go bankrupt, and close down.
        5: The building will be bought by a developer and turned into an art studio that features portraits of animals being molested by bikers.
        6: Everyone will talk about how progressive everything is these days.
        Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
          1: The court with rule against the church.
          2: A week later CPS will shut down the church for having an unsafe playground.
          3: Six months later the church will face lawsuits from couples claiming that if they'd of had kids instead of aborting, and if those kids went to that church, and if the kids would have used that playground that the child may have been hurt and those images of hurt children have traumatized them.
          4: The church will lose that lawsuit, go bankrupt, and close down.
          5: The building will be bought by a developer and turned into an art studio that features portraits of animals being molested by bikers.
          6: Everyone will talk about how progressive everything is these days.
          That pretty much sums it up!
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Roy View Post
            Handle-turning of the Lemon factors, surely? I'd say it passes, but I'm not an activist judge
            IANAL, so I dont understand what you mean.
            "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
            Hear my cry, hear my shout,
            Save me, save me"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by guacamole View Post
              IANAL, so I dont understand what you mean.
              IANALE, but GIMF.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • #8
                well IHATSIATNAFOOR.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I got three things from that article:
                  1. Alito is a moron.
                  2. The church's lawyer is more competent than the state's lawyer.
                  3. I have no idea why the state is fighting the issue.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                    1. Alito is a moron.
                    What exactly did he say that was so off the wall?
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      What exactly did he say that was so off the wall?
                      "Justice Samuel Alito pushed back against the idea that provisions like the state constitutional amendment on which Missouri relied to deny funding to Trinity Lutheran reflect some sort of “honorable historical tradition.” Instead, he asked somewhat rhetorically, aren’t they based on “anti-Catholic bigotry”?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                        "Justice Samuel Alito pushed back against the idea that provisions like the state constitutional amendment on which Missouri relied to deny funding to Trinity Lutheran reflect some sort of “honorable historical tradition.” Instead, he asked somewhat rhetorically, aren’t they based on “anti-Catholic bigotry”?"
                        I'm not sure how that makes him a moron. However, examining the case's transcript (the relevant part is on page 22), the article appears to completely misrepresent what happened. The "anti-Catholic bigotry" quote is not said by Alito, but by one of the lawyers in response to a question by Alito.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                          "Justice Samuel Alito pushed back against the idea that provisions like the state constitutional amendment on which Missouri relied to deny funding to Trinity Lutheran reflect some sort of “honorable historical tradition.” Instead, he asked somewhat rhetorically, aren’t they based on “anti-Catholic bigotry”?"
                          Well was he right?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                            I'm not sure how that makes him a moron. However, examining the case's transcript (the relevant part is on page 22), the article appears to completely misrepresent what happened. The "anti-Catholic bigotry" quote is not said by Alito, but by one of the lawyers in response to a question by Alito.
                            Good catch, I retract that statement.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Well was he right?
                              Anti-catholic bigotry simply doesn't exist in the US to any noticeable degree.

                              Comment

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