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Church & State Case At Supreme Court

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  • #61
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    I will ask again, how does school prayer violate the actual text of Establishment Claus - be specific please...
    seer is lying by omission again. Not only has he once again omitted the qualifying text from the 14th amendment, he's ignoring that this exact question is covered via the reference he requested:

    Because of the prohibition of the First Amendment against the enactment of any law "respecting an establishment of religion," which is made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment, state officials may not compose an official state prayer and require that it be recited in the public schools of the State at the beginning of each school day
    Last edited by Roy; 04-27-2017, 07:40 AM.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Roy View Post
      seer is lying by omission again. Not only has he once again omitted the qualifying text from the 14th amendment, he's ignoring that this exact question is covered via the reference he requested:

      Because of the prohibition of the First Amendment against the enactment of any law "respecting an establishment of religion," which is made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment, state officials may not compose an official state prayer and require that it be recited in the public schools of the State at the beginning of each school day
      And you are lying Roy since I already answered this:

      Even if I grant that it only gets you to state Congresses not being able to establish a state church. This would not prevent local school districts from having teacher led prayer. And was not thought so until the liberal bastardization of the First Amendment in the 1960s.
      Saying that a local school district can not have prayer has nothing to do with the clear text of the law. That is an invented theory.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        And you are lying Roy...
        Support or retract. Specifically, show that something I wrote was untrue, and that I was aware of it, as I showed you did.
        ... since I already answered this:
        Even if I grant that it only gets you to state Congresses not being able to establish a state church. This would not prevent local school districts from having teacher led prayer. And was not thought so until the liberal bastardization of the First Amendment in the 1960s.
        I've already shown that you omitted the clause on free exercise of religion, yet here you are reasserting your falsehood. It also gets you to states not being able to pass laws that infringe on freedom of religion.

        P.S. Don't think I missed your dishonest switch from "school prayer" to "a local school district can not have prayer".
        Last edited by Roy; 04-27-2017, 08:26 AM.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Roy View Post
          Support or retract. Specifically, show that something I wrote was untrue, and that I was aware of it, as I showed you did.I've already shown that you omitted the clause on free exercise of religion, yet here you are reasserting your falsehood. It also gets you to states not being able to pass laws that infringe on freedom of religion.
          And like I already said, school prayer prevents no one from practicing their religion, especially like I said if it is not compulsory. I gave you an example from my school days - no one was forced to join in.

          P.S. Don't think I missed your dishonest switch from "school prayer" to "a local school district can not have prayer".
          I had already referenced both before you jumped on me with your two cents...
          Last edited by seer; 04-27-2017, 08:31 AM.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Support or retract. Specifically, show that something I wrote was untrue, and that I was aware of it, as I showed you did....
            And like I already said, school prayer prevents no one from practicing their religion, especially like I said if it is not compulsory. I gave you an example from my school days - no one was forced to join in.

            I had already referenced both before you jumped on me with your two cents...
            Support your accusation or retract it, seer. Quote something I wrote and show it was untrue.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Roy View Post
              Support your accusation or retract it, seer. Quote something I wrote and show it was untrue.
              What are you talking about?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Support your accusation or retract it, seer. Quote something I wrote and show it was untrue.
                What are you talking about?
                You said I was lying, seer. Have you forgotten, or is this your usual selective 'memory' at work?

                Support your accusation or retract it, seer. Quote something I wrote and show it was untrue.
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Roy View Post
                  You said I was lying, seer. Have you forgotten, or is this your usual selective 'memory' at work?

                  Support your accusation or retract it, seer. Quote something I wrote and show it was untrue.
                  You did it first.

                  Both of you need to take this to the padded room.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    You said I was lying, seer. Have you forgotten, or is this your usual selective 'memory' at work?

                    Support your accusation or retract it, seer. Quote something I wrote and show it was untrue.
                    No Roy, you said I was lying by omission when I already dealt with the 14th amendment. You suggesting that I did not deal with it is your falsehood.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      You did it first.
                      But I supported my case using seer's actual words. Seer can't and won't, and instead he is compounding his untruths.
                      Both of you need to take this to the padded room.
                      He's not worth the bother. I don't think anyone believes him.
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        Jefferson’s interpretation of the Establishment Clause as a “wall separation between Church & State" was his opinion as one of those who drafted the Establishment Clause. And his opinion has been cited by the courts as precedent numerous times.
                        Except Jefferson's letter does not even come close to saying what you want it to say. This is baloney, and the activist courts are being dishonest in trying to interpret it as if it did.
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          Except Jefferson's letter does not even come close to saying what you want it to say. This is baloney, and the activist courts are being dishonest in trying to interpret it as if it did.
                          It would be nice if we had the rule of law instead of the rule of letters.
                          Maybe we should look up the letters of some founding father who was also a religious extremist and base court cases on that?
                          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            No Carrikature, that is politics. Besides things like teacher led prayer in school or the coach having prayer time before the big game (which were common practice) or having the Ten Commandments posted in school really don't cost anything.
                            Politics and being hypocritical aren't mutually exclusive. The rest of this isn't relevant at all. It's not about cost.
                            I'm not here anymore.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                              It would be nice if we had the rule of law instead of the rule of letters.
                              Maybe we should look up the letters of some founding father who was also a religious extremist and base court cases on that?
                              It'd be nice if the laws weren't based on "this doesn't need stated". I can't help thinking the founding fathers were really naïve.
                              I'm not here anymore.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Except you can find nothing in the Founders writings that would even hint that they would be opposed to something like School prayer, or even Scripture be taught in school. Just the opposite.
                                The Establishment Clause states that the US Congress cannot establish a state religion and the Fourteenth Amendment extends that onto the legislatures of the individual states.

                                But the other Founders had to approve the language, and they did not include that - or anything like that. It was clear CONGRESS shall make no law...
                                Congress agreed that US Congress cannot establish a state religion or, by implication, recognise any specific religion as the defacto state religion...as Jefferson (as one of the draftees of the Clause) made clear in his “separation of Church and State” interpretation.

                                Again Tass, the liberal, bias courts invented a meaning that was not found in the text. And the courts were consistent in allowing religious expression and even tax supported religious expression until these leftist whack jobs re-wrote the Constitution.
                                There's no “liberal bias”, simply the courts doing their job. You may think that government can openly favour Christianity over other religions...or secularism...but historically the courts don't agree with you. Deal with it.

                                I will ask again, how does school prayer violate the actual text of Establishment Claus - be specific please...
                                The Establishment Clause prevents government at any level from demonstrating preference toward religion; including preferences for any specific religion such as Christianity. This is why the courts consistently rule that government institutions (such as public schools) cannot support religious causes or promote religion, e.g. via school prayers.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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