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Thread: Quote by CS Lewis

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote by CS Lewis

    The Theistic Metaphysics highlights this quote from CS Lewis:

    "You never know how much you really believe anything until its truth or falsehood become a matter of life and death to you." -- C.S. Lewis

    What is a matter of life and death? Does this amount to a Pascal's Wager.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    41st Mojave Summer DesertBerean's Avatar
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    I imagine it would be along the lines of staring down the barrel of a gun while being told to renounce Christ if you want to live. It is then that you really find out if you do believe in Christ no matter what the cost.

  3. Amen Cerebrum123, Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    I imagine it would be along the lines of staring down the barrel of a gun while being told to renounce Christ if you want to live. It is then that you really find out if you do believe in Christ no matter what the cost.
    As I guessed, Pascal's Wager. There is no barrel, nor gun, just fear of the dark at the end of the cave.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    As I guessed, Pascal's Wager. There is no barrel, nor gun, just fear of the dark at the end of the cave.
    What are you taking about? I think it is clear that Lewis is basically asking if you would die for your beliefs. That has nothing to do Pascal's Wager.
    God moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform; He plants his footsteps in the sea, And rides upon the storm. You fearful saints fresh courage take, The clouds you so much dread are great with mercy, and shall break In blessings on your head. Judge not the Lord by your feeble sense, But trust him for his grace; Behind a frowning providence He hides a smiling face. William Cowper

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    He is saying that a lot of people just pay lip service to their beliefs (religious or otherwise) - and even they don't know the difference until it really matters.

    You can say all day long you believe a certain rope is strong enough to hold your weight, but until you decide to test that faith by crossing a 1000 foot drop by hanging on the rope, you won't know if you really believe it or not.

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    He is saying that a lot of people just pay lip service to their beliefs (religious or otherwise) - and even they don't know the difference until it really matters.

    You can say all day long you believe a certain rope is strong enough to hold your weight, but until you decide to test that faith by crossing a 1000 foot drop by hanging on the rope, you won't know if you really believe it or not.
    Right, and I just don't get how Shuny got Pascal's Wager out of this - just more of his reflexive hatred of Christianity.
    God moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform; He plants his footsteps in the sea, And rides upon the storm. You fearful saints fresh courage take, The clouds you so much dread are great with mercy, and shall break In blessings on your head. Judge not the Lord by your feeble sense, But trust him for his grace; Behind a frowning providence He hides a smiling face. William Cowper

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Right, and I just don't get how Shuny got Pascal's Wager out of this - just more of his reflexive hatred of Christianity.
    maybe he doesn't know what Pascal's wager is?

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    maybe he doesn't know what Pascal's wager is?
    Ya think! Now he will have to google it!
    God moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform; He plants his footsteps in the sea, And rides upon the storm. You fearful saints fresh courage take, The clouds you so much dread are great with mercy, and shall break In blessings on your head. Judge not the Lord by your feeble sense, But trust him for his grace; Behind a frowning providence He hides a smiling face. William Cowper

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    What are you taking about? I think it is clear that Lewis is basically asking if you would die for your beliefs. That has nothing to do Pascal's Wager.
    I do not believe that is the purpose CS Lewis proposes. Nothing here about dying for what you believe. It is basically facing death, "fear of consequences." makes one question what one believes in terms of truth or falsehood. Something a kin to foolish 'there are no atheists in the fox holes.'
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber guacamole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    I do not believe that is the purpose CS Lewis proposes. Nothing here about dying for what you believe. It is basically facing death, "fear of consequences." makes one question what one believes in terms of truth or falsehood. Something a kin to foolish 'there are no atheists in the fox holes.'
    Following after Sparko. Here is the direct quote from Lewis.

    You never know how much you really believe anything until its truth or falsehood becomes a matter of life and death to you. It is easy to say you believe a rope to be strong and sound as long as you are merely using it to cord a box. But suppose you had to hang by that rope over a precipice. Wouldn’t you then first discover how much you really trusted it? The same with people. For years I would have said that I had perfect confidence in B.R. Then came the moment when I had to decide whether I would or would not trust him with a really important secret. That threw quite a new light on what I called my ‘confidence’ in him. I discovered that there was no such thing. Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief.
    from A Grief Observed

    fwiw,
    guacamole
    "Shall we mourn here deedless forever, a shadow-folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the
    thankless sea?"

  12. Amen seer amen'd this post.

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