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Pascal's Wager: What Have I Lost?

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  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    So why do people say "good dog"?
    Because we assign moral values to their behavior. All he knows is that you like him and are reinforcing his behavior and he is probably going to get a treat.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      There are numerous self-aware species.



      All self-aware creatures, including dolphins, are aware of what behaviours will or will not be tolerated by the group, and this constitutes the group's moral code of right and wrong. So why don’t dolphins get redeemed?
      Because dolphins are not under the Law and don't require redemption. They also don't have immortal souls and are not created in the image of God. They are not condemned so they don't require redemption.

      Even little children know what behaviors will be tolerated or not, but they don't understand "right and wrong" in a morally culpable sense. Christians believe that children until they reach an age of accountability where they are morally culpable are automatically saved. And they are more intelligent than a dolphin.

      Animals will not be condemned to hell, so they do not require redemption. There will be dolphins and other animals in heaven and the new earth, but they are not immortal, so they come and go. They have no eternal soul.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
        What is it with all of these deities so concerned about whether they're worshiped or not? What kind of conciseness could be so ego centered and obsessed with themselves, that they are more concerned with whether they are loved and adored than even the most basic welfare of the world they are responsible for - look around. No person is entitled to love and worship. Not your partner, not your parents, not your friends, not your children, and not even God. Every relationship is based on each persons presence within that relationship, and what they bring to the table - not if they are related in some way.
        see? You oppose God.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          Behaviour that consciously chooses between what is acceptable or unacceptable to the group shows the existence of a moral code within that group.
          no it doesn't. It just shows acceptable behavior. It doesn't have any moral connotations involved. A wolf might roll over on its back when the pack leader growls at it to show submission, but it does it so that it isn't attacked or kicked out of the pack, not because it is "good" in a moral sense.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            What is ridiculous is that the "Creator and Upholder and Sustainer" of the universe DEMANDS love and worship.



            Well I'm sure that Hume would have been be devastated by your assessment.
            Worshiping and living with God is for our own good. We were created and designed to be his children. Fulfilling our purpose and living in harmony with him is what will make us the happiest and that is worship. Worshiping God isn't being forced to grovel before him. It is him allowing us to be near him and loving him as he loves us.

            Do parents demand their children love them? Are the children happier when they do love their parents and live in harmony in the family?

            Comment


            • Amen, Sparko! God does not need nor crave our worship. Just like most atheists I would not be comfortable with a god who needed my praise and worship. It is to our benefit to worship and praise the true loving God. This is true for a few reasons.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                Amen, Sparko! God does not need nor crave our worship. Just like most atheists I would not be comfortable with a god who needed my praise and worship. It is to our benefit to worship and praise the true loving God. This is true for a few reasons.
                Out of curiosity, with that statement in mind, I'm interested in hearing your take on Jesus' first commandment. If God doesn't crave worship, why would He command it?
                Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                  Out of curiosity, with that statement in mind, I'm interested in hearing your take on Jesus' first commandment. If God doesn't crave worship, why would He command it?
                  I did answer that, " It is to our benefit to worship and praise the true loving God. "
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                    I did answer that, " It is to our benefit to worship and praise the true loving God. "
                    Ah. I didn't quite grasp the connection there. Thanks.
                    Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                      Amen, Sparko! God does not need nor crave our worship. Just like most atheists I would not be comfortable with a god who needed my praise and worship. It is to our benefit to worship and praise the true loving God. This is true for a few reasons.
                      He commands it. "Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?” Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

                      Mere mortal fathers don't "command" their children to love, it has to be earned.
                      Last edited by Tassman; 04-26-2017, 11:06 PM.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        He demands it. "Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?” Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

                        Mere mortal fathers don't "demand" love, it has to be earned.
                        God isn't a mere mortal father though. He's the very reason anyone is able to take their next breath and not fall dead on the spot.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Because dolphins are not under the Law and don't require redemption.
                          Why aren’t dolphins under the Law?

                          They also don't have immortal souls
                          Neither do humans. Dualism is logically incoherent.

                          and are not created in the image of God.
                          Gods are created in our own image, always have been.

                          They are not condemned so they don't require redemption.
                          You mean they didn’t eat forbidden fruit.

                          Even little children know what behaviors will be tolerated or not, but they don't understand "right and wrong" in a morally culpable sense.
                          Children are socially conditioned as to what society considers “right or wrong, just as are lesser social species. Same process! All social species are genetically predisposed to learn and obey the rules of the group.

                          Christians believe that children until they reach an age of accountability where they are morally culpable are automatically saved. And they are more intelligent than a dolphin.
                          Nice of God.

                          Animals will not be condemned to hell, so they do not require redemption. There will be dolphins and other animals in heaven and the new earth, but they are not immortal, so they come and go.
                          You know there will be dolphins in heaven do you?

                          They have no eternal soul.
                          What is your evidence for the existence of “eternal souls’?
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Why aren’t dolphins under the Law?



                            Neither do humans. Dualism is logically incoherent.



                            Gods are created in our own image, always have been.



                            You mean they didn’t eat forbidden fruit.



                            Children are socially conditioned as to what society considers “right or wrong, just as are lesser social species. Same process! All social species are genetically predisposed to learn and obey the rules of the group.



                            Nice of God.



                            You know there will be dolphins in heaven do you?



                            What is your evidence for the existence of “eternal souls’?
                            because of your admission in the other thread that no evidence is good enough for you, I won't be wasting my time arguing with your trolling.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              because of your admission in the other thread that no evidence is good enough for you, I won't be wasting my time arguing with your trolling.
                              Does that mean you won't be expounding on Heaven's dolphinarium?
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                Does that mean you won't be expounding on Heaven's dolphinarium?
                                for you... sure.

                                Heaven is not going to be us flying around on clouds in the sky playing harps. The bible says that God is going to renew the Earth and make it into a paradise and then the heavenly city will come down to Earth and God will dwell with us. That means we will be living on Earth, along with everything that entails: trees, houses, animals, birds, dolphins, schnauzers, horses, monkeys, chimps, etc.

                                Basically it will be what the Earth would have been if Adam and Eve had never sinned in the first place.

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