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Pascal's Wager: What Have I Lost?

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  • Pascal's Wager: What Have I Lost?

    This is a slight twist on the classic argument. Since my conversion I have become, over all, a better person. A better son, father, and employee. More generous, less selfish and more kind. Faith has also provided great comfort, and a hope for a life beyond this vale of tears. So in the end, if there is no God, what have I lost?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Time, self-respect, reputation, money, courage, independence, and the only life you'll ever have.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Roy View Post
      Time, self-respect, reputation, money, courage, independence, and a portion of the only life you'll ever have.
      How have I lost any of those things? And if religion takes away those things, then I had them until my conversion in my late 30s. I can think of nothing from those days that I miss or would want back to make me complete. Well, except maybe chasing women.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        This is a slight twist on the classic argument. Since my conversion I have become, over all, a better person. A better son, father, and employee. More generous, less selfish and more kind. Faith has also provided great comfort, and a hope for a life beyond this vale of tears. So in the end, if there is no God, what have I lost?
        It is not so much that you have lost anything but that you have failed to gain the self-knowledge that comes with godlessness. A Christian has his thumb stuck in his mouth. It is undignified for human beings to live this way. Stand up my friend and be a man.
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

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        • #5
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          This is a slight twist on the classic argument. Since my conversion I have become, over all, a better person. A better son, father, and employee. More generous, less selfish and more kind. Faith has also provided great comfort, and a hope for a life beyond this vale of tears. So in the end, if there is no God, what have I lost?
          Nothing. If there is no God and you create your own subjective meaning then you have logically lost nothing.

          fwiw,
          guacamole
          "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
          Hear my cry, hear my shout,
          Save me, save me"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            This is a slight twist on the classic argument. Since my conversion I have become, over all, a better person. A better son, father, and employee. More generous, less selfish and more kind. Faith has also provided great comfort, and a hope for a life beyond this vale of tears. So in the end, if there is no God, what have I lost?
            You may have lost some degree of tolerance towards those who believe differently than you. On the other hand, this may be more than balanced by a sense of contentment in life and peace of mind. If it makes you happy, it can't be all that bad.
            Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
              You may have lost some degree of tolerance towards those who believe differently than you.
              You know that is interesting. I think it is a wash. Yes I think certain behaviors are wrong now than I didn't before, and that may reflect in what behaviors I would have less tolerance for (especially when I find them in myself). But then I also see all humans as sinners in need of saving grace who are also created in the image of God. It is quite egalitarian in one sense.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                You may have lost some degree of tolerance towards those who believe differently than you. On the other hand, this may be more than balanced by a sense of contentment in life and peace of mind. If it makes you happy, it can't be all that bad.

                No more so than the loss of some degree of tolerance towards those who believe differently than Christians.


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  It is not so much that you have lost anything but that you have failed to gain the self-knowledge that comes with godlessness.
                  Be a man FF? I enlisted in the Marine Corps when a war was going on, I was a professional Firefighter for a decade and was not religious until I was 37. So what self-knowledge are you speaking about?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                    You may have lost some degree of tolerance towards those who believe differently than you.
                    I can point to some atheists who fit that mold right here in this thread.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      I can point to some atheists who fit that mold right here in this thread.
                      Well, reduced tolerance for those of opposing belief systems is commonplace. In fact, adopting a belief may simply shift intolerances around a little. In my experience, Christians typically (but not always) balance any intolerance with compassion, as taught by Jesus. As long as those intolerances don't get out of hand, I think being happy in life wins out.
                      Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                        Well, reduced tolerance for those of opposing belief systems is commonplace. In fact, adopting a belief may simply shift intolerances around a little. In my experience, Christians typically (but not always) balance any intolerance with compassion, as taught by Jesus. As long as those intolerances don't get out of hand, I think being happy in life wins out.
                        yeah. my point was that being intolerant isn't something either side can lay exclusive claim to. I think it has to do with a person, not their belief system, or lack of. But then again, each side will always think the other is judging them to be intolerant unfairly.

                        I agree with Seer. My life has gotten better since I have become a Christian. People like to whine about being Christian takes all the fun out of life and how they would rather end up in hell partying with all their friends than sitting around in heaven playing a harp, but as someone who became a Christian late in life (40) I can compare both life styles and say that being a Christian is better than not being one, speaking for myself.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          ....but as someone who became a Christian late in life (40) I can compare both life styles and say that being a Christian is better than not being one, speaking for myself.
                          This is true. I had a wealth of life experiences before my conversion. Had been to about 15 different countries, lived in the Far East - never really denied my passions or desires, later married, raised children, had high profile jobs, etc.. - and it all left me wanting...

                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wouldn't lose anything. So what if universalism is true, then I'm going to heaven, if Christianity is True I'm going to heaven, if there's nothing left, then bury my body and I'll look peaceful..... maybe reincarnation is true and I can come back and be a cat... oh well life was lived and lived well and it was worthwhile. IMO I have nothing to gain or lose by being a Christian
                            A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                            George Bernard Shaw

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                            • #15
                              I think the greater question is, what does someone lose who does not believe, and Christianity IS true.


                              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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