Pascal's Wager: What Have I Lost?

[JimL]

God exists everywhere in the universe, and everywhere outside of the universe. He is not the universe. He existed before the universe was created, and he created it.

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Interesting, so you contend that the universe exists in god?

[Sparko]

Interesting, so you contend that the universe exists in god?

God is omnipresent. That means he is everywhere, in the universe and outside it.

[37818]

Well actually that doesn't make a lick of sense, if all things are nothing more than parts of one and the same thing, all comprised of the same fundamental substance, then that it is omnipresent is just descriptive of the whole. For instance, fundamentally, all things are comprised of energy/matter, and energy/matter, in so far as the universe is infinite, is omnipresent.
You describe the christian god the same way, three gods in one, comprised of many attributes. Attributes are descriptive of the whole, even if the whole can be conceived of as being made of parts.

No. The Christian view is that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4). Even giving the universe the definition of being everything. The universe is not omnipresent, at best it could only include what is omnipresent.

[Tassman]

God exists everywhere in the universe, and everywhere outside of the universe. He is not the universe. He existed before the universe was created, and he created it.

And you know this how, exactly?

[JimL]

God is omnipresent. That means he is everywhere, in the universe and outside it.

What do you mean by god is outside the universe? The universe is spacial, so your meaning with respect to god being everywhere within space is at least somewhat logical, but that god exists outside of space, as well as inside of space, seems to be a logical contradiction.

[Sparko]

And you know this how, exactly?

The bible.

[Sparko]

What do you mean by god is outside the universe? The universe is spacial, so your meaning with respect to god being everywhere within space is at least somewhat logical, but that god exists outside of space, as well as inside of space, seems to be a logical contradiction.

Even scientists admit that there could be other universes or even a metaverse that contains our universe as a bubble, so no, it is not a logical contradiction.

Everything we know says the universe is finite in time and space.

[37818]

And you know this how, exactly?

What definition of God do you understand Christians are working with?

[Tassman]

The bible.

So your assertion is a faith-based belief and not supported by substantive evidence. Why would I as an atheist accept this explanation?

[Tassman]

Even scientists admit that there could be other universes or even a metaverse that contains our universe as a bubble, so no, it is not a logical contradiction.

Everything we know says the universe is finite in time and space.

Yes, scientists do think that "there could be other universes" etc but they do not hypothesise that they are anything other than based upon natural laws...even if those laws are different to the natural laws and constants which govern our universe. .

[Roy]

What definition of God do you understand Christians are working with?

A myriad of different ones, which are often interchanged to fit the current need.

[Sparko]

So your assertion is a faith-based belief and not supported by substantive evidence. Why would I as an atheist accept this explanation?

Lordy, you are such a moron.

I said "God exists everywhere in the universe, and everywhere outside of the universe. He is not the universe. He existed before the universe was created, and he created it." - describing the Christian (and Jewish and Muslim) belief of Panentheism.

You ask me how I know it. I said "the bible"

Then you say the above.

Well DUH! we are DISCUSSING a faith-based belief. We are discussing what Christians BELIEVE about God. You as an atheist can take that as an accurate description of what Panentheism is and why Christians believe it. You don't have to believe in God to understand the concept of Panentheism.

You seem to get lost in these threads quite easily. Perhaps you should go back and review the last few pages each time before you post. It would make your newest posts not seem so idiotic.

[Sparko]

Yes, scientists do think that "there could be other universes" etc but they do not hypothesise that they are anything other than based upon natural laws...even if those laws are different to the natural laws and constants which govern our universe. .

derp. Again. Pay attention to the conversation before weighing in.

You just confirmed that talking about "outside the universe" is not illogical as JimL said it was. Thank you for agreeing with me.

[37818]

A myriad of different ones, which are often interchanged to fit the current need.

Well not every claim to be "Christian" is really Christian. And God who is omnipresent and infinite for starters. And then there is the Trinity explanation of God, God the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit who are distinct Persons are that One God.

[Tassman]

You ask me how I know it. I said "the bible"

Then you don't "know it" do you. You believe it as an article of faith, nothing more.

derp. Again. Pay attention to the conversation before weighing in.

You just confirmed that talking about "outside the universe" is not illogical as JimL said it was. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Sigh!

When dealing with the hypothesised greater cosmos, or multiverse, as you were, there is NO "outside the universe"...the universe is infinite.