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  • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
    I suspect our message is somewhat muddled by our politics.
    I think an honest assessment of the current climate would reveal that the message being received is altogether different than what we'd hope.

    There are two mindsets wherein one believes the LGBTQ community is strong, obstinate, and on course for world domination and therefore it must be rebuffed with a strong show of political force and the other mindset that recognizes that the LGBTQ community is quite frail and full of wounded people who are in desperate need of help. Even from a crass biological standpoint these people cannot last long as they don't reproduce - and the suicide rates that conservatives seem to love reveals that they kill themselves with even greater zeal than their most vocal opponents.

    They already know it's wrong, Sparko.
    What they cannot fathom is that God could possibly love them.
    I guarantee you that is where the problem lies.
    Liberal churches tell them that God loves them and they believe it, because they also tell them that God approves of their lifestyle.

    What they don't want to hear is that God loves them but that he doesn't approve of their sin. That's what they can't fathom.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Liberal churches tell them that God loves them and they believe it, because they also tell them that God approves of their lifestyle.
      What they don't want to hear is that God loves them but that he doesn't approve of their sin. That's what they can't fathom.
      I think the suicide rate proves that they're well aware of the disapproval of sin but not aware of God's love.

      At some point we have to come to believe the Bible and it states that the laws of God are written on men's hearts.
      The sort of self contempt that results in suicide comes about from the sort of conflict that confirms the truth of Scripture.
      The vast majority of people get it: They know they're sinners.
      What most people cannot comprehend is that they're loved anyways.

      You know this is all true.
      Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
        I think the suicide rate proves that they're well aware of the disapproval of sin but not aware of God's love.

        At some point we have to come to believe the Bible and it states that the laws of God are written on men's hearts.
        The sort of self contempt that results in suicide comes about from the sort of conflict that confirms the truth of Scripture.
        The vast majority of people get it: They know they're sinners.
        What most people cannot comprehend is that they're loved anyways.

        You know this is all true.
        I agree with that.

        But that doesn't mean we should condone the actions of the political group. We should fight against it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          But that doesn't mean we should condone the actions of the political group. We should fight against it.
          Let's say you vote to ban gay marriage thereby denying health care to a very sick homosexual neighbor.
          Is it any wonder that your gay neighbor isn't interested in any view of love that includes voting against his health care?

          I'll admit that I'm not sure where the line is here but there is something instructive in Paul's claim to "know nothing but Christ crucified while among you".
          This is all stuff I'm still sorting through so I'm not a good source for the answer.
          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
            So is materialism, so is gluttony, so is lying, so is hatred... I'm just exhausted that this is the one mental disorder that gets all the press.

            You have enough faith to know that regardless of how many articles are written, how many books are published, how many experts with their stupid bow ties get up and cite meaningless statistics that no force in the universe can make it out to be anything other than a sin problem. If you could buy stock in the idea that it is a sin problem you'd do well to put all of your money there because it is a sure thing. The ways of God cannot be opposed even a little bit. You know this so why spend time arguing with people who have mental disorders about their mental disorder? Rest.
            I do think homosexuality is the greater sin because it's a direct assault on the nuclear family, and if homosexuals succeed in destroying the concept of the traditional family then society will be poised for collapse.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
              I suspect our message is somewhat muddled by our politics.
              I think an honest assessment of the current climate would reveal that the message being received is altogether different than what we'd hope.

              There are two mindsets wherein one believes the LGBTQ community is strong, obstinate, and on course for world domination and therefore it must be rebuffed with a strong show of political force and the other mindset that recognizes that the LGBTQ community is quite frail and full of wounded people who are in desperate need of help. Even from a crass biological standpoint these people cannot last long as they don't reproduce - and the suicide rates that conservatives seem to love reveals that they kill themselves with even greater zeal than their most vocal opponents.

              They already know it's wrong, Sparko.
              What they cannot fathom is that God could possibly love them.
              I guarantee you that is where the problem lies.
              You seem to be confusing society with the Church, and even the church with the Church.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                So is materialism, so is gluttony, so is lying, so is hatred... I'm just exhausted that this is the one mental disorder that gets all the press.
                Yes, I have to agree with that.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                  I think the suicide rate proves that they're well aware of the disapproval of sin but not aware of God's love.

                  At some point we have to come to believe the Bible and it states that the laws of God are written on men's hearts.
                  The sort of self contempt that results in suicide comes about from the sort of conflict that confirms the truth of Scripture.
                  The vast majority of people get it: They know they're sinners.
                  What most people cannot comprehend is that they're loved anyways.

                  You know this is all true.
                  But this does not mean that we as Christians should tell them their doing okay. You seem to be suggesting that the Church should be following the society instead of truth.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                    Let's say you vote to ban gay marriage thereby denying health care to a very sick homosexual neighbor.
                    Is it any wonder that your gay neighbor isn't interested in any view of love that includes voting against his health care?
                    This is bull pucky.
                    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                      Let's say you vote to ban gay marriage thereby denying health care to a very sick homosexual neighbor.
                      uh... what? does not compute.


                      Is it any wonder that your gay neighbor isn't interested in any view of love that includes voting against his health care?
                      How did I vote against his having healthcare? Single people can't have healthcare now? I am in deep trouble if that is true, being single and all.

                      I'll admit that I'm not sure where the line is here but there is something instructive in Paul's claim to "know nothing but Christ crucified while among you".
                      This is all stuff I'm still sorting through so I'm not a good source for the answer.
                      Loving people doesn't mean condoning their sin. It means confronting it but showing them they can be forgiven. We fight against sin, not the sinner.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        This is bull pucky.
                        How likely are you to give Starlight a fair hearing given his position on killing infants?
                        My guess is that if not for you, at least for some here, he isn't taken seriously on anything because of that one issue.

                        If we become known for an issue that is different than being known for Christ.
                        Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          I do think homosexuality is the greater sin because it's a direct assault on the nuclear family, and if homosexuals succeed in destroying the concept of the traditional family then society will be poised for collapse.
                          Look up Ezekiel 16 and see why Sodom was actually condemned.
                          Also, read the gospels and compare everything Jesus said about homosexuality with what he had to say about being judgmental.

                          I understand putting homosexuality at the top of your list; however, we should endeavor to emphasis what Christ told us to emphasize.
                          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                            You seem to be confusing society with the Church, and even the church with the Church.
                            The confusion isn't on my end.
                            I've been in more than one church that equated America with Christianity.
                            Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              But this does not mean that we as Christians should tell them their doing okay. You seem to be suggesting that the Church should be following the society instead of truth.
                              I'm not sure how you get that out of that quote.

                              I'm saying that we should believe the Bible (men know they're condemned, men know they're doing evil) and preach the most unbelievable and hardest to understand doctrines of the Bible: God Loves Us.

                              Ask 10 gay men this question: Does the Bible condemn gays?
                              Ask 10 gay men this question: Does God unconditionally love you?

                              ^--- Guess the answers there and then you'll understand what the message of the church is America really is today.
                              Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                Loving people doesn't mean condoning their sin. It means confronting it but showing them they can be forgiven. We fight against sin, not the sinner.
                                I'd be interested in any N.T passages that make it your job to fight against other people's sin.
                                Serious question, that, since you may actually find some.
                                Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                                Comment

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