There's No England Now...

[Mountain Man]

I asked you for proof of this before, and I do not believe you responded.

Your belief is incorrect. Study after study after study, going back decades, some of which I have cited in this thread, show that homosexuals are a generally miserable lot regardless of the social landscape. But this is hardly surprising, because it's exactly what you would expect from a group of people with an untreated mental illness.

The problem is that this always seems to be in comparison with heterosexuals, which seems a pointless comparison for this purpose. "Homosexuals are less healthy than heterosexuals" doesn't really say anything about what homosexuals should do because they aren't heterosexuals (note: I am using "homosexual" and "heterosexual" to refer to orientation, not behavior). The proper comparison would be to compare to other homosexuals.

I'll try to explain this with an analogy. Suppose someone with diabetes is trying to evaluate whether they should take insulin as treatment. Well, studies clearly show that people on diabetes who take insulin are less healthy than people who don't have diabetes. But it's downright goofy to use that as a reason to not take insulin, because the option to not have diabetes doesn't exist; you're diabetic, not non-diabetic. Since that part isn't controllable (unless they discover a cure down the line, which is possible), the proper thing to do would be to compare the effect insulin (or any other treatment) has on other diabetics.

So I don't think the "homosexuals are less healthy than heterosexuals" is particularly relevant in any statement on healthiness of homosexuality for the same reason; people do not appear to choose to be homosexual, after all. However, one does have the choice on whether or not to act on that orientation, in the same way a heterosexual can choose whether or not to act on it. It seems to me a far more useful comparison would be to compare homosexuals who do act on their orientation (i.e. actually enter into relationships and things like that) versus those who do not (i.e. eschew all such rela). Does the latter provably lead to the same kinds of health benefits, particularly in regards to happiness?

Stupid analogy. A better analogy would be to compare the diets and lifestyles of those with diabetes and those without. In other words, taking insulin is not the cause of diabetes while homosexuality and its associated activities are directly responsible for the poor physical, emotional, and psychological health of homosexuals.

[Meh Gerbil]

I'd like to add to the statistics that Mountain Man posted:
Homosexual men are 100% more likely than heterosexuals to have sex with other men.

Sorry I don't have a source for that one as I know unsourced data is frowned upon.

[Sparko]

Well LBGT have been normalized in schools now. Back when I was a kid, being gay in school was an invitation to be mocked and ostracized. Now it is "cool" and normal to be the gay kid.

So you would expect a lot lower suicide rates, or at least comparable to heterosexual rates.

Not so. They are 2 to 6 times more likely to commit suicide compared to heteros.

Source: http://www.speakforthem.org/facts.html

Suicide is the leading cause of death among Gay and Lesbian youth nationally.
30% of Gay youth attempt suicide near the age of 15.
Gays and Lesbians are two to six times more likely to suicide than Heterosexuals.
Almost half of the Gay and Lesbian teens state they have attempted suicide more than once.
It has been conservatively estimated the 1,500 Gay and Lesbian youth commit suicide every year.

© Copyright Original Source

Where's the happiness?

[Starlight]

I'd like to add to the statistics that Mountain Man posted:
Homosexual men are 100% more likely than heterosexuals to have sex with other men.

There are plenty of degrees of bisexuality. Plenty of men who consider themselves completely heterosexual might have had a gay experience or two, or have gone to an all-boys high-school and had homosexual experiences during that time. C.S. Lewis in one of his books comments that it happened at his high school, and that to the best of his knowledge the kids grew up to be 'perfectly normal' heterosexual men.

[Starlight]

Now it is "cool" and normal to be the gay kid.

Your levels of willful delusion are incredible. Being gay is the leading cause of teenage homelessness in the US.

So you would expect a lot lower suicide rates, or at least comparable to heterosexual rates.

Perhaps if you horrible conservatives stopped being so nasty to gay kids, they wouldn't attempt suicide so often? Or do you think that parents kicking the kids out of the house and onto the street makes the kids happier and lowers their chances of suicide? There's blood all over your hands.

[Leonhard]

Back when I was a kid, being gay in school was an invitation to be mocked and ostracized.

The good old days, eh?

Now it is "cool" and normal to be the gay kid.

It has never been cool to be gay, except amongst other gay people. It's certainly a lot less violent, but I have friends in the US who can't show public acts of affection. In Denmark it's better, but I know more than one gay friend who's been the victim of anti-gay violence.

[seer]

The good old days, eh?

It has never been cool to be gay, except amongst other gay people. It's certainly a lot less violent, but I have friends in the US who can't show public acts of affection. In Denmark it's better, but I know more than one gay friend who's been the victim of anti-gay violence.

Well I certainly do not want to see violence, but as a culture we should not accept homosexual behavior as good or moral.

[rogue06]

The good old days, eh?



It has never been cool to be gay, except amongst other gay people. It's certainly a lot less violent, but I have friends in the US who can't show public acts of affection. In Denmark it's better, but I know more than one gay friend who's been the victim of anti-gay violence.

Today every TV show seems to have included a gay character and stories even get re-written so that at least one character is gay.

[Meh Gerbil]

There are plenty of degrees of bisexuality. Plenty of men who consider themselves completely heterosexual might have had a gay experience or two, or have gone to an all-boys high-school and had homosexual experiences during that time. C.S. Lewis in one of his books comments that it happened at his high school, and that to the best of his knowledge the kids grew up to be 'perfectly normal' heterosexual men.

Are you arguing for 95%?

(This was all a joke and you killed it. I'm going to leave this thread now. I hate all of you and I hope you all die in a fire)

[Leonhard]

Today every TV show seems to have included a gay character and stories even get re-written so that at least one character is gay.

And they're not the villain? *gasp*

[Leonhard]

Well I certainly do not want to see violence, but as a culture we should not accept homosexual behavior as good or moral.

I don't get the "but", in your statement. Bullying gays in school is not acceptable. Beating up a gay person in a bar is not okay. Whether we condemn homosexual behavior or not. There is no "but" here. Doing those things is wrong, approving of them is wrong, accepting them is wrong, period, excalation mark, "Jimmy you're expelled for a week for hitting Bob over this."

[rogue06]

And they're not the villain? *gasp*

I'm not sure that would be permitted

[Mountain Man]

I'd like to add to the statistics that Mountain Man posted:
Homosexual men are 100% more likely than heterosexuals to have sex with other men.

Sorry I don't have a source for that one as I know unsourced data is frowned upon.

Even sourced data is frowned upon when it doesn't say what liberals want it to say.

[Leonhard]

I'm not sure that would be permitted

I wouldn't mind. One of my favorite discussion was about the movie Gone Girl, which had some feminists up in arms because it depicted a strong woman who was a terrifying misandristic woman. The author, herself a feminist, argued that if women should be allowed to be anything in stories, they should also be allowed to be strong and terrifying villains.

The thing about a villain though, depending on the story, is that we don't often get a chance to see their life and family. But I can see some serious drama stories with a vindictive spiteful gay couple. I wouldn't mind that at all.

[Mountain Man]

Today every TV show seems to have included a gay character and stories even get re-written so that at least one character is gay.

And they're always depicted as the ones who have their lives together and are overflowing with wisdom while heterosexual couples are frequently depicted as dysfunctional.