Originally posted by Darth Executor
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There's No England Now...
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Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostYou keep accusing me of being confused on that issue.
You've yet to make the case.
Christians are the driving force behind these items:
England: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-gay-marriage
US Supreme Court: http://www.ibtimes.com/
US Supreme Court: http://www.christianpost.com/news/ch...ruling-141464/
Presbyterians: http://theaquilareport.com/resolutio...-sex-marriage/
DOMA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act
So yeah, the church has been riding the gay marriage thing pretty hard for the past decade.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI'm sorry."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostLook up Ezekiel 16 and see why Sodom was actually condemned.
Also, read the gospels and compare everything Jesus said about homosexuality with what he had to say about being judgmental.
I understand putting homosexuality at the top of your list; however, we should endeavor to emphasis what Christ told us to emphasize.
However, the Law of Moses pulled no punches when it came to the issue of homosexuality -- one of the few sins in the Bible to be called an abomination -- and the Apostle Paul condemned it in the harshest of terms.
There does seem to be hierarchy of sins in the Bible, and homosexuality appears to be considered among the worst of the worst.Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-27-2017, 04:00 PM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostYou keep accusing me of being confused on that issue.
You've yet to make the case.
Christians are the driving force behind these items:
England: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-gay-marriage
US Supreme Court: http://www.ibtimes.com/
US Supreme Court: http://www.christianpost.com/news/ch...ruling-141464/
Presbyterians: http://theaquilareport.com/resolutio...-sex-marriage/
DOMA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act
So yeah, the church has been riding the gay marriage thing pretty hard for the past decade.
The perhaps tired old saw of "love the sinner and hate the sin" is what you are caught up on. Christians, and the Church, are in opposition to normalizing homosexual behavior. They still, in many cases, reach out to homosexuals to aid in their fight against the urge to live in sin. The Church supports me, and all heterosexual people in my/their fight against the urge to live in sin. How is it wicked in one case and not in the other.
Unless you have successfully trolled me, I see you struggling with working out what is the way to deal with a problem that seems to be self contradictory. I think you are wrong in your approach, but I appreciate the seemingly sincere effort to put Christian ethics to work in "real" life. Keep up the good fight, but understand that many of us fighting the same fight do not see it the same way as you seem to.
I hope this is coherent.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postexcept there has been less bullying, name-calling and social ostracism for being gay and yet the suicide rates are still 2 to 6 times higher than heterosexuals
One of the interesting points the journal article I linked to made was that one effect of increased social awareness of homosexuality, has been a reduction in the average age that gay youth "come out" from their 20s down to their early teens. Unfortunately what homophobia does exist in our society seems to be at a maximum among adolescent youth, as kids are inclined to bully other kids who are different to them, and don't yet possess the levels of concern for other and appreciations for human rights that they might later come to possess as adults:
The early adolescent years are characterized by heightened self- and peer regulation regarding (especially) gender and sexuality norms (Mulvey & Killen 2015, Pasco 2011). During adolescence, youth in general report stronger prejudicial attitudes and more frequent homophobic behavior at younger ages (Poteat & Anderson 2012). Young adolescents may be developmentally susceptible to social exclusion behavior and attitudes, whereas older youth are able to make more sophisticated evaluative judgments regarding human rights, fairness, and prejudice (e.g., Horn 2006, Nesdale 2001). Therefore, today’s LGBT youth typically come out during a developmental period characterized by strong peer influence and opinion (Brechwald & Prinstein 2011, Steinberg & Monahan 2007) and are more likely to face peer victimization when they come out (D’Augelli et al. 2002, Pilkington & D’Augelli 1995). Such victimization has well-documented psychological consequences (Birkett et al. 2009, Poteat & Espelage 2007, Russell et al. 2014).
About the same or higher than when I was growing up when there was more bullying, name-calling and ostracism of gays."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by seer View PostJust about everyone Carrikature? I'm old enough to remember when just about everyone believed that things like fornication, homosexuality, promiscuity, out of wedlock births, etc... were morally wrong. What happen to those baselines? Why is consent a line that can not also be crossed? Look at Starlight, he too holds to the standard of consent, yet he would allow for the killing of infants - of course without their consent.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostThe question is 'should we as Christians support society in trying to normalize behavior we (and according to you that includes homosexuals) see as sinful?'
At present I do not even know whether or not I know anyone who is homosexual."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostMy baselines are far more fundamental than that. Simple things like 'we all want to be free to live our life' and 'do unto others'. I'm pretty sure I've made this clear in the past.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJust about everyone Carrikature? I'm old enough to remember when just about everyone believed that things like fornication, homosexuality, promiscuity, out of wedlock births, etc... were morally wrong.Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.
"Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham
"We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostThe interesting thing about the condemnation of gluttony in Ezekiel is that being overfed and not helping the poor was cited as the reason for Sodom's condemnation and not the more popular view of teh gays. I think Ezekiel paints view of Sodom that perfectly matches present day America and the issues raised therein are seldom handled in the churches I've attended whereas teh gays get lots and lots of air time.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by stfoskey15 View PostIt's worth noting that even when most people considered those things immoral, they still happened quite frequently. For example, it is estimated that between 30 and 40% of women in New England in the late 1700s were pregnant at the time they got married. And according to a 1938 study, 52% of men and 24% of women had sex before they got married. I'm in a public place so I won't post links now, but I can post links for those and other sources later if you want.Last edited by seer; 04-27-2017, 05:50 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostHere ya go:
It's also supremely stupid to compare Sodom with modern day america. Not just America but most of the world does a great job feeding the poor, mostly thanks to advancements in technology that have made genuine starvation nearly extinct. Pretty much the only places where you can die of starvation these days are warzones because they make food distribution extremely dangerous."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI'm sorry.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo? These baselines, like any others invented by men, can be changed at will -and often are.
The point was that they're generally accepted by everyone. They are.I'm not here anymore.
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