What does 2 Thess 2:10-12 mean to you? (II)

[seanD]

Of course it’s purpose far exceeds the purpose of the Bible. The Bible is meaningless to the world.
I can’t wait for what you are describing. Personally, I’ve had it up to here with the marriage of “the church” to the world. The church is not the world. The world is not the church. It’s high time that the body of Christ gets out of bed with the world and fixes it’s eyes on Heaven. And no…Heaven is not the next galaxy.

This sentence is full of so many self-contradictions I can't even comment.

[justsumguy]

This sentence is full of so many self-contradictions I can't even comment.

Yeah...you probably need to let that one sink in for a few days.

[RBerman]

Nope. My sentences were pretty simple. Everything I say on this site is simple.
Here's the first verse...
KJV Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
YLT And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him
Here's the last part of the second verse...
KJV as that the day of Christ is at hand.
YLT as that the day of Christ hath arrived;
verse 16
KJV Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
YLT and may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and our God and Father, who did love us, and did give comfort age-during, and good hope in grace,
I think much of the Bible and much of our story runs parallel to itself.
I see 2 Thess. 2 as talking about the current presence of Christ and I see the same in much of the Bible.
I am open to you seeing it however you see it but I would invite you to look at it the way I see it. I can see how you would see it the way you do. I’ve seen that view presented, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.

NETNow regarding the arrival of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to be with him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
NIVConcerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
NASBNow we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
NLTAnd now, brothers and sisters, let us tell you about the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered together to meet him.
MSGNow, friends, read these next words carefully. Slow down and don't go jumping to conclusions regarding the day when our Master, Jesus Christ, will come back and we assemble to welcome him.
BBENow as to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and our meeting with him, it is our desire, my brothers,
NRSV As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters,
NKJVNow, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,


Essentially your interpretation requires the use of Young's Literal Translation instead of any other English translation. I hope you can appreciate why I'm skeptical of any doctrine which is only supportable by the idiosyncracies of a particular translation.

[justsumguy]

NETEssentially your interpretation requires the use of Young's Literal Translation instead of any other English translation. I hope you can appreciate why I'm skeptical of any doctrine which is only supportable by the idiosyncracies of a particular translation.

Not the case. I saw it that way through the KJV before I knew of YLT. The KJV is fine with me. I’m not into doctrine if you are defining it as authoritative or basis of group belief. It’s clear you want to be authoritative and define group belief. Like I said, I’m not into it. I like Young’s literal interpretation for the sake of literal translation.

I have no problem with the passage being about the bodily return of Christ. I do have a problem with the sickness some people seem to get in the pit of their stomach whenever the current presence of Christ is referred to. I will be more than happy when this life that includes horror comes to an end for everyone (including me) but I have already been gathered unto Christ in the sense that REALLY matters.

[RBerman]

OK. I have no problem with the current presence of Christ, which the NT speaks of repeatedly. I do have a problem with interpreting 2 Thessalonians in a way that isn't talking about the bodily return of Christ which is still future.

[barnasha]

I can engage in such practice until the cows come home but I know it is meaningless. The story is quite clear and it is clear that we can choose how to interpret the scripture. If Jesus says the main commandment is to love...then why isn't that our main focus? If we are admonished over and over to not be of this world and make Heaven that which concerns us...then why are we totally fixated on the world? Why are we arguing with the world? Why are we demanding the world not be the world and treating those of the world as if we hate them? I'll tell you why...because we can literally find ways to literally justify our delusion with our literal translation of little collections of verses....just like they did when Jesus was around.

glad it's not just me who noticed

[barley]

I see it as we get what we choose to have and we get it in multiples of what we choose. If we choose to reject the love of truth, then we will have all the more delusion to choose from. In the same vein, if we choose to receive the love of truth, we will have all the more truth to love.

It runs into all facets of life...if I choose to be concerned about the things of tomorrow, it's not that I will be guaranteed more things to worry about, it's that I will see more "reason" to concerned.

justsumguy,

Interesting passage.

This passage is speaking of the situation after I Thessalonians 4:13-18 occurs. Romans 5:9 says we are saved from the wrath to come. So your passage does not directly affect Christians, for they will be in heaven at that time.

Since God is light and in him is no darkness at all. I John 1:5, God himself would not send a delusion. God is light and exposes lies by shining truth onto them. So we must look at this use of God in at least one of the following two ways:

1. God is using the Hebrew idiom of permission here. Ie, God is attributed with evil because of the desire to show God as sovereign, although God is always good. The Hebrews got this accomplished this by the idiom. Ie, Literally, God brought evil upon evil people, but by use of the idiom, the meaning is,"God permitted evil to be brought upon the evil people." See John 10:10, it is the thief, the Devil, Satan, that steals, kills and destroys. Jesus Christ, who always did the Father's will, wants for people to have life and have it more abundantly. Deluding someone is not light, it is not good, it is not life abundant. So, it may be the idiom of permission.

2. God should not be capitalized. II Corinthians 4:4, it is the god of this world, Satan, that deceives and blinds the minds of those that believe not. How will Satan be able to delude people who choose to not believe? See II Thessalonians 2:9, Satan is able to use people to do lying signs, and wonders.

Either way is scriptural and fits with the general scheme of the scriptures.

barley

[RBerman]

This passage is speaking of the situation after I Thessalonians 4:13-18 occurs. Romans 5:9 says we are saved from the wrath to come. So your passage does not directly affect Christians, for they will be in heaven at that time.

Romans 5:9 is speaking of hell and the final judgment. Christians are saved from God's wrath in a global sense that we are no longer his enemies; we have been reconciled to him. That doesn't mean we'll escape any particular unpleasant circumstances that occur on this planet, however.

Romans 5:9-11

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Since God is light and in him is no darkness at all. I John 1:5, God himself would not send a delusion. God is light and exposes lies by shining truth onto them.

Non sequitur.

So we must look at this use of God in at least one of the following two ways:

1. God is using the Hebrew idiom of permission here. Ie, God is attributed with evil because of the desire to show God as sovereign, although God is always good. The Hebrews got this accomplished this by the idiom. Ie, Literally, God brought evil upon evil people, but by use of the idiom, the meaning is,"God permitted evil to be brought upon the evil people." See John 10:10, it is the thief, the Devil, Satan, that steals, kills and destroys. Jesus Christ, who always did the Father's will, wants for people to have life and have it more abundantly. Deluding someone is not light, it is not good, it is not life abundant. So, it may be the idiom of permission.

2. God should not be capitalized. II Corinthians 4:4, it is the god of this world, Satan, that deceives and blinds the minds of those that believe not. How will Satan be able to delude people who choose to not believe? See II Thessalonians 2:9, Satan is able to use people to do lying signs, and wonders.

Either way is scriptural and fits with the general scheme of the scriptures.

The "Hebrew idiom of permission" is not just a figure of speech; they really believed (rightly) that God was the ultimate cause of all things.

[apostoli]

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

There are two things that I’ve always been disturbed about this passage:
1) That Paul didn’t specifically state “the gospel of Christ” (i.e. Romans 1:16. 1 Cor 9:12. Gal 1:7. 2 Thess 1:8, etc.), but seemed to generalize it as just “the truth”;
2) That God allows this to happen.

Hi SeanD,

I suggest that the "truth" in 2 Thes 2:10 that A.Paul is talking about is the future coming of Christ and we being gathered to him. Consider 2 Thes 2:1-3,13-14 (NIV)

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction....

...we ought always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Also consider 1 Thes 2:19 "For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?" (NIV)

I find #1 especially distinctive because we know from the teachings of Christ that there will be false Christians, so this is why I get the impression this is more than just the gospel or that Paul was necessarily distinguishing between just believer and nonbeliever.

Consider Jesus' warning at Matthew 24:23-25. Though undoubtedly there have been and will be "fabricated" Christians (there were even in Jesus' own day = John 8:30-44), imu, Jesus ' warning about false Christs is comparable with A.Paul's admonishment in 2 Thes 2. Consider Mt 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect-if that were possible".

I’m just curious how Christians interpret this, especially how they interpret “strong delusion,” what they believe this strong delusion is, if it is one monolithic deception that affects mankind as a whole, if it is more varied and individual, or if it's just figurative and not really a supernaturally induced deception at all.

I think it is self delusion as a collective response.

2Thes 2:9-10 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

The Greek word translated by the NIV as "evil" is "adikia", it can refer to "the injustice of a judge" but more particularly it refers to "the unrighteousness of someone's (or some group's) heart and life". 2 Thes 2:9-10 cause me to contemplate 2 Tim 3:1-7, which imo, defines the the "sorts of evil that deceive".

I see it as we get what we choose to have and we get it in multiples of what we choose. If we choose to reject the love of truth, then we will have all the more delusion to choose from. In the same vein, if we choose to receive the love of truth, we will have all the more truth to love.

(?)

Hello justsumguy,

Imu, the "truth" A.Paul refers to is not a generalisation as you seem to be suggesting. He is very specific about what he is refering to - see 2 Thes 2:1-3,6-9,12-14.

It runs into all facets of life...if I choose to be concerned about the things of tomorrow, it's not that I will be guaranteed more things to worry about, it's that I will see more "reason" to be concerned.

(?) I'm guessing your thoughts are a continuation of some discussion on another thread. On face value, your remark doesn't address the concerns expressed by SeanD in the quote you posted in post #1 of this thread. I'm assuming your focus is "What is truth?", if so then from a philosophical viewpoint "truth" is subjective. Aristotle gave an example of a philosopher that advocated "one cannot step into the same stream twice", which is true concerning atomic constructs, but false otherwise.

In contrast the NT holds that there is only one undeniable truth.

[apostoli]

I'm just trying to understand what you believe. It seemed to me that you said 2 Thessalonians 2 was about the current presence of Christ, and not the future bodily return of Christ. That made me wonder if you interpreted the whole book, and perhaps the whole BIble, that way. So i asked, and you seemed to deny what you had just asserted. Now it sounds like you simply don't have a fixed opinion on the matter but are open to several different interpretations. Is that right?

Nope. My sentences were pretty simple. Everything I say on this site is simple.

Here's the first verse...
KJV Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
YLT And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him
Here's the last part of the second verse...
KJV as that the day of Christ is at hand.
YLT as that the day of Christ hath arrived;
verse 16
KJV Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
YLT and may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and our God and Father, who did love us, and did give comfort age-during, and good hope in grace,
I think much of the Bible and much of our story runs parallel to itself.

I see 2 Thess. 2 as talking about the current presence of Christ and I see the same in much of the Bible.
I am open to you seeing it however you see it but I would invite you to look at it the way I see it. I can see how you would see it the way you do. I’ve seen that view presented, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.

2 Thes 2 is definitely talking about a future presence, verses 1 to 3 make that especially clear, particularly vs3 "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day {the day of the arrival of our lord Jesus Christ vs1&2} will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness* is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. (NIV)

Recommend you do a little study on the Greek word "parousia" that A.Paul uses. For about 400 years upto the 2nd century AD it was the word used for the arrival or visit of the king. It doesn't mean "in the presence" but is a future thing ie: once the king arrives and stands before us we will be in his presence.

We all need to be careful reading into English translations things that are not in the Greek. For instance Young (YLT) translates 1 Thes 2:17 as "And we, brethren, having been taken from you for the space of an hour -- in presence, not in heart -- did hasten the more abundantly to see your face in much desire". The KJV is similar. The word Young translates as "presence" is προσώπῳ=prosopo, which as most should know is equivalent to the English word "person" (cp RSV & most modern translations). It is interesting that Young and others translate πρόσωπον=prosopon as "face" (many modern translates render "face to face").

Imu, if A.Paul wanted to say Jesus was "with" the church he would have used "pros" or one of its derivitives (cp. Jn 1:1) but it is obvious that this is not his intent as he explicitly says that that won't happen until the falling away occurs (2 Thes 2:1-3). If A.Paul meant "to be present" he would have used "emprosthen" as he does concerning us in regard to Christ's "parousia". It is worth noting Young's translation of 1 Thes 2:19 "for what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? are not even ye before [emprosthen] our Lord Jesus Christ in his presence [parousia]?" That A.Paul has the "parousia" and our inclusion in it, is a hope, makes it obvious the "parousia", the arrival of the king, is yet to happen.
_________________

Note: the "parousia" is distinct from Christ indwelling (presence) in the church or the individual which occurs through the indwelling of the Spirit (cp. Romans 8; )

[barley]

Romans 5:9 is speaking of hell and the final judgment. Christians are saved from God's wrath in a global sense that we are no longer his enemies; we have been reconciled to him. That doesn't mean we'll escape any particular unpleasant circumstances that occur on this planet, however.

Romans 5:9-11

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Non sequitur.



The "Hebrew idiom of permission" is not just a figure of speech; they really believed (rightly) that God was the ultimate cause of all things.

We are saved from the wrath to come, the wrath spoken of in Revelation and in other places. we will have been gathered together in the heavenlies before any of the wrath begins.

We do however live in today's evil world and thus have pressures on us today, but we do not experience wrath from God, nor will we. Romans 5:9

Have you not read the book of Job? Especially Chapters 1 and 2 God permitted Satan to mess up Job's life.

Why would God permit that?

See Job 3:25. Job feared, he was afraid something bad would happen and therefore the hedge of God around him was weakened. God had to allow Satan in because of Job's fears.

God's message time and time again is "Fear not" "fear not" "fear not" II Timothy 1:7

Job feared. Anyone reading the book of Job would recognize that God permitted Satan to act. God was not the cause of the destruction.

Satan was.

God ended up delivering Job from his captivity, the captivity that Satan brought upon Job.

God is light and in him is NO darkness AT ALL!

barley

[RBerman]

Anyone reading the book of Job would recognize that God permitted Satan to act. God was not the cause of the destruction. Satan was. God ended up delivering Job from his captivity, the captivity that Satan brought upon Job. God is light and in him is NO darkness AT ALL!

There is no darkness in God, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't ordain bad things. You're trying to dismiss them on the basis of a "Hebrew idiom of permission" which is merely a tactic to soften the meaning of the Bible.

Amos 3:6

When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it?

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

[apostoli]

The "Hebrew idiom of permission" is not just a figure of speech; they really believed (rightly) that God was the ultimate cause of all things.

Thats true, but it doesn't mean they were correct! Israel & Judah were incredibly "stone hearted". In my reading of the prophets YHWH neither granted permission, acquisenced nor ordained any social calamity, he simply withdrew his protection, and before doing so sent his prophets to warn of such, unless his chosen people repented of their vainglory. So any calamity that befell Israel & Judah, is the result of their own stupidity!

I'll qualify that statement: regarding natural events, these are entirely attributable to God's design. Any calamity that befalls humanity, is the result of their own stupidity (eg: settling on a flood plain or in volcanic territory etc)

We are saved from the wrath to come, the wrath spoken of in Revelation and in other places. we will have been gathered together in the heavenlies before any of the wrath begins.

Hmm. Revelation 7:9,14 talks of "a great multitude, which no man could number...they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". At Revelation 6:11 we read "it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed." Also note Revelation 13:7 where "It was granted to him [the Beast] to make war with the saints..."

On those revelations I wouldn't be complacent and assume you will be transformed before the tribulation comes...I'd recommend to prepare for it by strengthening our faith...

Consider Matthew 24:21-24, 29-31: "Then shall be great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect...

..Immediately after the Tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken; And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes (people) of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

We do however live in today's evil world and thus have pressures on us today, but we do not experience wrath from God, nor will we. Romans 5:9

The wrath is being thrown into the lake of fire, the saving is the resurrections made possible through the blood of Christ. (cp. Rom 5:25)

Have you not read the book of Job? Especially Chapters 1 and 2 God permitted Satan to mess up Job's life.

But he ensured Job's life was protected. Note Job 2:6 doesn't have God granting permission. God had no need to test Job, he already knew the outcome, but Satan didn't! Have a think on that...

There is a key verse/s at Job 5:7-9 "Yet man is born to trouble, As the sparks fly upward. But as for me, I would seek God, And to God I would commit my cause — Who does great things, and unsearchable, Marvelous things without number." Job's expectation was trouble, but he sought protection in God. Thus at Job 2:10 "Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips".

Why would God permit that?

Job's friends figured he was being punished, Job figured he was being corrected (Job 4 & 5). Interestingly, Job presumed he'd be redeemed (Job 5:18)

See Job 3:25. Job feared, he was afraid something bad would happen and therefore the hedge of God around him was weakened. God had to allow Satan in because of Job's fears.

I get the impression Job's big fear was death, though at the time he hoped for it (Job 3:25; 6:8-10), but maybe his greatest fear was dieing as a result of God's punishment for sins he didn't know about (cp. Job 10)

God's message time and time again is "Fear not" "fear not" "fear not" II Timothy 1:7

Job 15:1-5 "Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said: Should a wise man answer with empty knowledge, And fill himself with the east wind? Should he reason with unprofitable talk, Or by speeches with which he can do no good? Yes, you cast off fear, And restrain prayer before God. For your iniquity teaches your mouth, And you choose the tongue of the crafty..."

According to Eliphaz, Job had cast off fear [of God].

Job feared. Anyone reading the book of Job would recognize that God permitted Satan to act. God was not the cause of the destruction. Satan was.

Thats true. Though reading the book, that wasn't Job's perception. Note Job 1:6-12, for Satan's plan to work, Job had to believe that what was happening to him was the work of God. Job 40:7-8 has YHWH re-enforcing Job's perspective (also see Job 42:2)

God ended up delivering Job from his captivity, the captivity that Satan brought upon Job.

Captivity? Tribulation/s might be a better word

God is light and in him is NO darkness AT ALL!

So Eliphaz the Temanite and his two friends seemed to be suggesting, and yet, they attracted the wrath of YHWH (Job 42:7; especially see chapters 36 & 37).

Imu, you have over extended in applying 1 John 1:5 to the incidence of Job. A.John used the word "skotia"="ignorance respecting divine things". Thus we are admonished (vs 6-7) "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness (skotei), we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." (consider 1 Jn 4:9-15).

[RBerman]

Thats true, but it doesn't mean they were correct! Israel & Judah were incredibly "stone hearted". In my reading of the prophets YHWH neither granted permission, acquisenced nor ordained any social calamity, he simply withdrew his protection, and before doing so sent his prophets to warn of such, unless his chosen people repented of their vainglory. So any calamity that befell Israel & Judah, is the result of their own stupidity!

That's because your reading of the prophets begins with assumptions about how God acts and doesn't act, so that when the Bible says otherwise, you just say, "Oh, those Israelites, what did they know?" But the Bible is not just the opinions of Israel. It's the very word of God, who says this sort of thing about the way he works:

Habakkuk 1:6-9

I am raising up the Babylonians,
that ruthless and impetuous people,
who sweep across the whole earth
to seize dwellings not their own.
They are a feared and dreaded people;
they are a law to themselves
and promote their own honor.
Their horses are swifter than leopards,
fiercer than wolves at dusk.
Their cavalry gallops headlong;
their horsemen come from afar.
They fly like an eagle swooping to devour;
they all come intent on violence.

Acts 2:22-23

Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

You'll be much better off just accepting that the Bible means what it says.

[barley]

There is no darkness in God, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't ordain bad things. You're trying to dismiss them on the basis of a "Hebrew idiom of permission" which is merely a tactic to soften the meaning of the Bible.

Amos 3:6

When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it?

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

God does not ordain, originate or instigate evil

You are attributing evil to God. Not your fault. You do not understand figures of speech, You have not been able to distinguish the good ness of God from the bad ness of the devil. Once you realize that God is always good and the Devil is always bad, then you will be able to make more sense of scripture. God allowed Lucifer to rebel because God gave the angels freedom of will to choose whom to serve.

God had to allow for evil other wise free will would be meaningless. If there is only one choice, then free will cannot be exercised.

Isaiah 45:7 must be understood in that light. God allows evil. You choose who you will serve, God who is always good or the Devil who is always bad. Hebrews 2:14 makes it very clear that the devil is the author of death. God is the giver of life. Death is an enemy that shall be destroyed I Corinthians 15:26. Death is an enemy. God is not the author of death, the Devil is. Yet God allows it to happen.

Your accusation of softening the Bible is erroneous. There is a thief, the devil, our adversary, See John 10:10. the three fold purpose of the thief is to steal kill and destroy. That is not soft, that is the hard, hard truth. If you choose to ignore these truths, you will continue to ignore the source of all evil, our adversary and never be able to defeat and destroy his works.

God is love. Love does not murder, steal or destroy. We are not ignorant of Satan's devices. Satan would love for us to attribute evil to God. That would serve Satan's purposes just fine.

barley