The Reduction of Salvation.

[mickiel]

Salvation is the major theme of the bible, and thus the major target of satan, he must find ways to eliminate it, or reduce it as much as he can. And he must enlist some major players in his goals of distorting Salvation. And I want to show some surprising players he has enlisted in his effort to reduce Salvation.

But first what is Salvation and why?

Salvation is basically " The act of Saving", preservation from destruction, the redemption of humanity from the bondage and penalty of sin. The goal of satan then is to instill ways to keep humanity in bondage and create ways that we cannot escape the penalty of sin. Then create ways that make that penalty last forever. And this is what we face.

So I want to examine the Reduction of Salvation.

Peace.

[Catholicity]

So I am going to answer this through my Catholic eyes. To us, we look at Salvation as no one is actually "saved" bur rather redeemed in this life, through the mercy of Christ's Death Buriel and Ressurrection and we are receivers of that redemption through our Baptismal Grace. Salvation is something that happens when we have shuffled of this mortal coil and are heavenbound. This is when were are full given the new body and free totally from all uncleanness. Are we absolutely 100 percent assured of heaven? No. Paul himself stated "lest I myself be disqualified" No man ought boast of what he has done or should do, but we should boast of Christ and his work on the Cross, so that all may be saved. and we know that some are saved some are not. Salvation is what happens after we die. Redemption is what happens in the here and now. Salvation is not then "reduced" it is in its fullness, and complete. The work of the evil one is always to tempt us out of our promised redemption and living a life of the promises of Christ, but it is out of our own free will that we accept or reject the promises. And then when we die, we can die in a State of Grace, happy and at Peace, confident in the Justice, Grace and Mercy of God, not fearing the Enemy.

[mickiel]

Satans reduction of Salvation is foremost in his strategy, and he created the doctrine of " Limited Atonement" as his lead strategy, and instilled it within many churches surprisingly. Really an intelligent attack on Gods plans, he enlisted religion itself to assist in his deadly distortion. Satan is enraged at the mere thought of human Salvation, insanely jealous of it. And envious of it. This was one of the reasons he tempted Christ with a bueatiful bribe. His goal all the while was to reduce Salvation as much as he could. He was not concerned with humans worshipping him, but coveted Christ worship of him, he plans on murdering humanity.

He disquises himself as God, and enlist Gods own followers to participate in his goal of reducing Salvation.

Its an incredible story.

Peace.

[mickiel]

So I am going to answer this through my Catholic eyes. To us, we look at Salvation as no one is actually "saved" bur rather redeemed in this life, through the mercy of Christ's Death Buriel and Ressurrection and we are receivers of that redemption through our Baptismal Grace. Salvation is something that happens when we have shuffled of this mortal coil and are heavenbound. This is when were are full given the new body and free totally from all uncleanness. Are we absolutely 100 percent assured of heaven? No. Paul himself stated "lest I myself be disqualified" No man ought boast of what he has done or should do, but we should boast of Christ and his work on the Cross, so that all may be saved. and we know that some are saved some are not. Salvation is what happens after we die. Redemption is what happens in the here and now. Salvation is not then "reduced" it is in its fullness, and complete. The work of the evil one is always to tempt us out of our promised redemption and living a life of the promises of Christ, but it is out of our own free will that we accept or reject the promises. And then when we die, we can die in a State of Grace, happy and at Peace, confident in the Justice, Grace and Mercy of God, not fearing the Enemy.

The doctrine of free will is actually part of satans plan of reduction of Salvation. If Salvation was totally in Christs hands, then Jesus would " Loose none of the humans." John 17:12.But if Salvation was in human hands, or free will, oh then Christ can loose most of them, so this is the illusion satan desires, a strong serious belief in free will, so he can wrestle Salvation out of Christ hands, and put that responsibility on humans.

Effectively dooming most of them.

Peace

[mickiel]

Satan is a knowledable creature, but wise in his own deceptive ways. He looks to " Mentally handicap believers in God", in as many areas as he possibility can. The doctrine of eternal punishment is a mental handicap of classic porpotions, effectively crippling much of the minds of many believers, some stroked in stark fear. It cripples the minds of Atheist, as they hate this primordal doctrine of punishment, because they see the insanity of it and it cripples their view of God, effectively reducing Salvation in their eyes. And this is what satan is after, at the least, a crippling reduction in the counciousness of humanity that considers Salvation.

In Psalms 119:81;" My soul Faints for thy Salvation, I wait for thy word." Well satan is after a different kind of reaction in humanity towards Salvation, he wants humans to think God has fainted in his plan of Salvation, that its " Weak", not all incompassing, but selective and limited. And he is enlisting unsuspecting believers in God to put this illusuion out there in the consciousness of humans. To shorten Gods hand in Salvation, to reduce redemption, to put limits on Gods Grace, and restrict the forgiveness of Gods Love.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Really the actual reduction of Salvation is impossible, and satan knows this, but humans do not. So satans thing is to continually pervert it in the human consciousness, to cripple the concept. In Job 42:2, Job laments; " I know that you can do ALL things, and no purpose of yours can be "Thwarted," meaning prevented or crippled. Whats Good and Acceptable to God is that all humans be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, and God " Desires this with all his heart", 1Tim. 2:3-4. It is simply incredible that satan has convinced even believers in God, that God cannot get what he desires. Job 23:13 directly contridicts this unholy belief;" God is unique and who can turn him? What he desires that he does", and he desires that ALL humans be saved, that desire of his makes the Salvation of all academic.

But satan powerfully stands in the cut. He wants to cut humanity off from this truth and lead a rebellion of limited Salvation, and give the suggestion that God cannot get what he desires, a strength of deception even amoung the population of believers.

Peace.

[Hamster]

Please stop insulting Satan, our brother in Christ

[Catholicity]

Umm...attacking Scripture???? Won't do you much good unless you think your God...but hey...to each his or her own.....The devil being a deceiver is a master of deception, and condemned. You clearly have some sort of unorthodox beliefs here. and "limited Atonement" is something that Calvinists are exclusive too. Last time I checked redemption is for all people. However some will choose to live eternally with it, some will not. And if Satan is a liar and deceiver, what is his punishment for lying deceiving and manipulating people into falsehoods?
Contemplate, do not answer immediately

[mickiel]

Salvation is not a choice, its an inheritance which is free through the sacrifice of Christ, Acts 20:32. Redemption is for all people, including those who don't choose it, they need it the most, but they are the one satans has suckered christianity into condemning. Thinking choice is greater than salvation itself.

I believe God will utterly destroy satan in the end, and his demons, and nothing will be left of them.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Please stop insulting Satan, our brother in Christ

I am curious, can you explain to me how satan is a brother in Christ?

Peace.

[mickiel]

Is there a limit to Salvation, or a reduction of it? Acts 13:47;" For the Lord has commanded us; I have placed you as a light for the gentiles, that you should bring Salvation to the end of the earth." Also Isaiah 49:6, Salvation is not limited to people, culture, religion, choice, or the time earth has to exist. God wants Salvation for everyone on earth, past, present or future, its unlimited! No religious doctrine can limit its reach by placing any limitations on it.

But satan is wise as a serpent, he has instilled physicological false religious limitations on it, and he knew if he used religion and scripture to do this, its seduction would be far more mentally damaging.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

In times of distress human nature is either to run to God, or deny him. In Isaiah 33:2 God is human Salvation in the time of distress. When humans reject God and deny him their stressed out in their being, not knowing " What they do." Jesus asked God to forgive those who were killing him on the cross because " They didnot know what they are doing." When people reject Christ they don't know what their doing, and when christians condemn them for rejecting God, they don't know what their doing either. Both are stressed out and satan is taking advantage of that stress and creating a wedge between people and the truth of their Salvation. He does not want them to know their Salvation is sealed and secure in Christ.

So satan uses fear and insecurity as wedges to human revelation on just how free their Salvation is. Jonah 2:9;" Salvation is FROM the Lord", not from free will choice. Its something that comes directly from God.

And I want to explain that.

Peace.

Salvation is " From God", its not from free will choice.

You know, satan using believers in God to uphold limited Salvation, is like Russia using Americans to overthrow the government. People being enlisted to ruin a good thing in their own family.

And let me explain that.

Peace.

[Catholicity]

So according to you, God will destroy Satan and his demons in the end. So what about people who give themselves entirely over to evil? Your pulling verses from the Bible which are explicit to redemption through Christ Jesus, yet what kinds of verses follow these statements regarding redemption? To you, is the entire Bible True or False? and how much of the Bible is true?

What do you make of this verse : "The wages of sin is death." and "All who wore the mark of the beast were thrown into the lake of sulpher" I'm just a little curious.

[mickiel]

So according to you, God will destroy Satan and his demons in the end. So what about people who give themselves entirely over to evil?quote

They will be entirely changed by God and give themselves to good.


Your pulling verses from the Bible which are explicit to redemption through Christ Jesus, yet what kinds of verses follow these statements regarding redemption?quote

There are too many to list, but I will go through many of them in this thread.


To you, is the entire Bible True or False? and how much of the Bible is true? quote

The majority of it is true, but through some errors in translation, and converting the bible over to so many languages, some error has creeped in, like the verses mentioning eternal hell suffering, I don't think they are even in the original manuscripts.

What do you make of this verse : "The wages of sin is death." and "All who wore the mark of the beast were thrown into the lake of sulpher" I'm just a little curious.

The wages of sin is death, but Jesus paied that debt, and now the gift of God is eternal life which has cancelled out the wages of sin.

All those who wore the mark of the beast, are not humans, but demons, it was demons that the lake was created for, not humans. Jesus death and ressurection erased that mark from humans.



Peace.

[Catholicity]

The wages of sin is death, but Jesus paied that debt, and now the gift of God is eternal life which has cancelled out the wages of sin.

All those who wore the mark of the beast, are not humans, but demons, it was demons that the lake was created for, not humans. Jesus death and ressurection erased that mark from humans.



Peace.

Matt 12:32 but whoever Speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or the age to come. and 37 By your words you will be acquitted and by your words you will be condemned. (previous 36: on the day of judgement every man must give an account...) Please reread ALL of 2 Peter which speaks of the whole of the destruction of false teachers "It would have been better for them not to have known the ways of righteousness..." And 2 Peter 3:7 "The present heavens and earth have been reserved by the same word kept for the day of judgement and of destruction for the godless." As for the reference to the Lake of Sulpher. "The Devil who had led them astray was cast into it where the beast (666, some ascribe to Nero, other ascribe to all those who are persecutors and blaspehemers) and the false prophet were. However just to be clear, Nero's name in Hebrew does Numerically translate to the 666 and in Greek 616.

[Hamster]

I am curious, can you explain to me how satan is a brother in Christ?

Peace.

If you believe in the ultimate involuntary reconciliation of everyone to God, doesn't that include evil spirits, including Satan?