The Reduction of Salvation.

[Catholicity]

Do you believe every word Christ said was the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

[mickiel]

Do you believe every word Christ said was the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Sure I do, yes. Do I believe that we understand correctly those words, no. Do I believe that during the translation of the bible from Hebrew and Greek, to Spanish and English caused some errors in what Christ said, yes.

Peace.

[Catholicity]

well translating the word Krino which was the used word in several places was not an error. What I am not understanding here, is if you believe 100 percent in the words of Christ, then what about the word Krino (condemn) is there not to understand?

[mickiel]

well translating the word Krino which was the used word in several places was not an error. What I am not understanding here, is if you believe 100 percent in the words of Christ, then what about the word Krino (condemn) is there not to understand?

I understand the word condemnation, as I understand Rom.5:16-18, the condemnation on men has been removed. Rom. 8:1 confirms this, because all humans have this payment of Christ that cancels condemnation, what is there not to understand about that? Why do christians condemn unbelievers?

Peace.

[mickiel]

Make no mistake about it, I believe Salvation to be much more widespread than religion considers it to be. I view it as a worldwide movement and plan of God. Jesus in John 6:32-33;" Its not Moses who gave the bread of Heaven, but the Father. The bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven and " Gives" life to the world!"

Again and Again the word of God uses " The whole world as the target of Salvation." Not a limited group, not a particular race or culture, not a distinction between believer and unbeliever, but the " World." Its not male or female, its genderless, its cultureless, its unlimited.

So why do we see this spirit of reduction branch out and manifest itself in so many ways?

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[Catholicity]

I'm going to state Romans 8:1 "There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." again the word here is Anakrino. or protection of judgement for those in Christ, and the verse is exclusive to those in Christ Jesus.
Reread Matt 25:31-46. It states who is saved at the final judgment day and who is told to "depart" (separation sheep from the goats) in other words those who followed Christ and those who spend eternity with the Lord and those who spend eternity Condemned. Just for your Benefit I'll put it here 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” This is all Scripture, these are words which you admitted earlier to 100 percent believing were true. You will have to decide whether or not you believe Jesus. The Eternal Fire is the same here used in Revelation yes used to refer to the beast and the devil. its spelled out, and quite clear. Jesus was truthful, and I cannot make it clearer. Some will be in Heaven some will be in Hell, end of story, case closed there it is in print. look it up, go read it, I don't care. case closed. You have no excuse except to make up something that isn't there

[mickiel]

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” This is all Scripture, these are words which you admitted earlier to 100 percent believing were true. You will have to decide whether or not you believe Jesus. The Eternal Fire is the same here used in Revelation yes used to refer to the beast and the devil. its spelled out, and quite clear. Jesus was truthful, and I cannot make it clearer. Some will be in Heaven some will be in Hell, end of story, case closed there it is in print. look it up, go read it, I don't care. case closed. You have no excuse except to make up something that isn't there

Goats in scripture do not symbolize humans. And you ommitted the last part of verse 41 which plainly states that this lake was not prepared for humans, it was created by God for the devil and his demons. I see the Salvation of humans in that. Iam not making this up, its there, the Salvation is there, I see it.

My case remains open with me, I will continue to search ther scriptures for the Salvation of those you cannot see.

Peace.

[mickiel]

In Romans 6:23 is a cornerstone of Salvation;" The wages of sin is death, but the " FREE GIFT" of God is eternal life. In 1Tim. 2:6 Jesus paied those wages, there is nothing humans can do to themselves to cancel out this incredible Salvation. God has GIVEN Salvation to humanity FREE, and free indeed, therefore no price can be put on Gods free gift, and no prior conditions, such as human " Acceptance" of that gift. In John 1:29 Jesus complettely TOOK AWAY all the sins of humanity, prior conditions is a reductive effort to bring those sins and their penalty back to this world.

Bringing sins back to enforce their penalty is the reduction of Salvation.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[mickiel]

I understand the Salvation of All is simply beyond the comprehension of many who view it as blasphemy, I have not been listing scriptures that are not in the bible, every last one of them is IN your bible! Phil. 4:7;" And the peace of God, " Which surpasses ALL comprehension", shall guard your hearts and mind in Christ Jesus. This is why the label of heretic does not bother my mind, I know this truth is simply beyond the comprehension of those who accuse me. The Angel in Luke 2:10 didNOT call Jesus comming Saving effort a thing God planned to give to only those who " Accept him", he announced it was good news and GREAT Joy for ALL of the people. This Angel placed no limitations on this Great Salvation, and neither will I.

I am destined to be banned from every religious website that teachs this great gospel is only for those who accept it. In Col. 2:13 while we were DEAD in our sins, meaning we were unbelievers and rejectors of God, Jesus MADE, not asked our permission, MADE us alive together with him and forgave us ALL our sins, vs. 14- and CANCELED OUT the certificate of death! Glory to God, how GREAT a Salvation. One can be dead in their sins, having no submission to God, and Jesus death STILL applys to you, not just believers who are alive in their belief.

Its a miracle! Its a complette total reflection of Gods true Heart and absolute Love for us, utterly unconditional.

But the Spirit of Reduction in Salvation, will place limitations on you-- like you must accept the gift.

Let me show you something in Gods word.

Peace.

[mickiel]

In Daniel 4:35;" All the humans on earth are accounted as nothing, God does according to his will in Heaven, and no human can stop him or question what he has done." His expressed will is that all be saved, and no believer in him can ask him;" Why are you saving those who reject you?" What can seperate humanity from the Love of Christ? Can persecution, famine, unbelief, rejecting him, disobedience, what can make God or Jesus not Love you?

That Love is your Salvation, Gods Love has saved you, even while you are in your sins. And this is what irks some christians, that God Loves you, an Atheist, just as much as he Loves them, there is no partiality. Christianity has built their case " Based on them", their righteousness, AND, your unrighteousness, they need for you to not have Salvation for " Some reason", so theirs can shine brighter. The thought of a God rejecting human being given salvation free is repulsive to them, because you have not " Met the Standard."

Their standard, and until you do, your just not worthy. 2Corinth. 9:15;" Thanks be to God for his " Indescribable Gift!" Whats indescribable, well the complette Salvation of All humans, anythingless than that is describable.

Peace.

[Sparko]

Mikeil, if someone mails someone a "free gift" of 1 Million dollars, but that person never accepts the gift, is he still a millionaire?

[mickiel]

Mikeil, if someone mails someone a "free gift" of 1 Million dollars, but that person never accepts the gift, is he still a millionaire?

No, they must accept the gift in that situation.I would then hope, for their sake, that someone is involved in their lives with the power to persuade them to change their minds. Nobody is more adept at that than God. You just don't believe that God thinks its " Worth it to persuade them", I do. There is nothing more valuable than eternal life, and I just don't view God as the kind of being who would let them down, in order to satisfy THEIR shortsighted will, I think his will in these situations MUST take presendence over theirs, because its foolish not to accept.

I understand that you search the scripture to support this " Clause in the contract covenant" of limited Salvation, I consider that supposed clause as utter foolishness to base Salvation on the acceptance of the human. They would loose out on the most important thing in Life and Death. Sparko, those who reject God don't know what they are doing, if they knew, they wouldnot reject him. Jesus in John 4:10;" If you KNEW the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, " Give me a drink", you WOULD have asked him and he would have given you living water." God and Jesus KNOWS that many humans just don't know him, so it falls to them to reveal themselves to them. I am a FIRM believer that when they reveal themselves to the human, there then is a 100% conversion ratio. Those who reject them, simply do not yet know them.

Eph. 2:8" For by grace we are saved through Faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, its the gift of God." The act of accepting God is NOT of ourselves, or our own self responsible will, our will of acceptance MUST be influenced by God, or were left to ourselves, and many reject him because of that.

Once God reveals himself to a human, that human then will NEVER be the same again, BECAUSE of God, not their own will. The power of Salvation, the wisdom to accept God, the power to repent, ALL this comes FROM God! There is no free will clause in Salvation being accepted, Rom. 8:28;" For we know that God CAUSES all things to work together."

God is the cause, he is the increase in human awareness that leads to acceptance.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Let me show another scripture that knocks this doctrine of free will choice in Salvation out of the window. Romans 8:29-30;" For whom he foreknew he also " Predestined" to be conformed to the image of his Son , who is the firstborn amoung many, and whome he also " Predestined", he THEN called them, justified and glorified them." What has this got to do with free will or accepting Christ? Absolutely nothing, the Salvation of humanity was " Preordained", based on Gods will, NOT acceptance of his will.

Why would God predestine only a certain part of humanity?

And I want to go into why he didnot do that.

Peace.

[mickiel]

In Ezek. 3:7 it describes Israel as not willing to listen to God, as stubborn and obstinate, but yet God saved them anyway. Once your predestinated to be saved, it no longer matters what your attitude is, how much you disobey or reject God. This is a fact that many Salvation reducing christians just cannot believe, because it would " Take away from their selfish shine", their precious free will belief that pats them on the back. Their self glory, and I want to touch on that.

Peace.

[mickiel]

In Jer. 31:34 God shows his true nature, he said that all humans will know him, from the least of us to the greatest of us, he states that he will forgive our sins and remember them no more. You can reference Col.2:13-14 and Is. 56:1. All have sinned, all have fallen short, and rejection of God is simply falling short, its NOT unforgivable.

Rational Gaze once accused me of using the same scriptures and repeating myself, as of now, I have used 91 scriptures that support the Salvation of all. And I will show a lot more. Compared to All those who have argued against me, I have shown 3 times the total amount of their scriptures combined.

Simply research this thread for yourself to bear this out.

Peace.