The Reduction of Salvation.

[mickiel]

I am sorry I made an error. I have used 91 scriptures in this thread, the combined christian posters have used 22. I have used over 4 times the amount of scriptures they have used. They accuse me of not responding to their scriptures, of which I have. They have come nowhere near to responding to mine as I have theirs.

These things are the truth of the matter in debate.

Peace.

[Sparko]

Mikiel, you have indeed twisted scripture in this thread many times. Most of us simply have stopped quoting scripture at you because you have shown that you will not listen. You simply ignore any scripture that goes against what you believe. For us to keep quoting scripture at you is to cast pearls before swine.

[mickiel]

Mikiel, you have indeed twisted scripture in this thread many times. Most of us simply have stopped quoting scripture at you because you have shown that you will not listen. You simply ignore any scripture that goes against what you believe. For us to keep quoting scripture at you is to cast pearls before swine.

I am not a swine, I am a firm believer in God and Jesus, and I have quoted 4 times as many scriptures than you and your brothers combined, and I feel it is the oppisite from what you claim, simply two far different interpitations of scripture. Scripture No. 92, John 9:39;" For judgement I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind."

Those who do not see, or the rejectors of God, the unbelievers in God, the sinners christianity condemns, Jesus prophisized that they WILL SEE, and those who see, will become blind. You know one reason Jesus will blind believers, because THEY are blind to the Salvation of those who they consider unworthy of Salvation.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Scriptures no. 93 and 94; Acts 10; 36 and 42. Jesus is called " The Lord of ALL!" And Jesus was appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. Why did he come to earth, no. 95, Matt. 20:28 to give himself as a ransom for many. In John 10:10 he came that we can all have Life, no. 96.

Its not about counting peoples sins and catagorizing them, calling them unforgivable and placing them into Salvation Exile, its about their LIVES!

Peace.

[mickiel]

In Pslams 72:12-13, " The Lives of the Needy he will save." Who needs Salvation more than unbelievers? They need Gods grace more than ANY believer. But their day will come, Isaiah 40:5;" Then the Glory of the Lord will be revealed, and ALL humans will see it TOGETHER!" God will reveal what he has blinded many to. The very mouth of God has spoken this, latter part of verse 5. Christ is ALL in All, Col. 3:11, meaning he is all that those who reject God will ever need!

In 2Corinth. 5:18-19 God GAVE humans " Reconciliation through Christ", just gave it to the world and IS NOT " Counting their sins against them." Hes not even holding humans responsible for sin because Jesus cancelled out that weight. That equals Salvation for all. and that is 100 scriptures showing that Salvation cannot be reduced.

Peace.

[mickiel]

The spirit of reduction in Salvation often uses free will doctrine to promote the destructive decisions of unbelieving humans, not knowing Prov. 16:9;" The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his path", simply overides mans will and causes him to be where he wants them to be. This is repeated in 20:24;" Humans steps are ordained by God, how then can a human understand his way ( or decisions) without God?" Well we can't, and God does not hold those responsible, who he has not led or drawn to him. People who live without Gods guidance will make wrong choices, and God does not show partiality against them, Prov. 28:21," To show partiality is not good, because for a piece of bread a man will transgress."

Humans reject Salvation because God has not yet influenced them, the worlds bread has. But Christ is the true bread of life, and christian doctrine does not set that table of bread up, only God does.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[mickiel]

In Isaiah 45:23 God makes a vow that he will save all of humanity. Notice Jonah 2:9;" That which I have vowed I will pay, Salvation is FROM the Lord." Salvation is not " From human acceptance of it", its not a " Result of human will", its FROM GOD! Its a result of Gods will, which is immutable.

I had 5 or 6 christians debating me on this, notice how they have all slithered away, as I posted over 100 scriptures to support this astounding Salvation. THATS how you defend what you believe, let Gods word speak for you, and it will prevail. The reductive gates of limited Salvation cannot prevail against it.

Peace.

[Sparko]

I had 5 or 6 christians debating me on this, notice how they have all slithered away, as I posted over 100 scriptures to support this astounding Salvation. THATS how you defend what you believe, let Gods word speak for you, and it will prevail. The reductive gates of limited Salvation cannot prevail against it.

Peace.

No Mickey Mouse. We just don't want to waste our time with you any more.

[mickiel]

No Mickey Mouse. We just don't want to waste our time with you any more.

I understand why you run away and resort to calling me names, like your brother Rational Gaze, I just do not agree with such behavior and tactics, though I understand it. I've seen it before, been treated like this before. I am not " Mickey Mouse", I am no cartoon, I am for real. But I refuse to call you out of your name, I attack your doctrines, not your personage. I have ran many people off of me, I reconize when I do it. You, as well as your brothers, know what you can't handle, thats one reason WHY you resort to name calling, its predictable behavior in frustration.

I have 100 more scriptures waiting on you should you decide to return, but I will post others in the mean time. Such as this one in John 5:40-44, where Jesus reveals WHY people don't believe in him. They are unwilling to come to him, and he said in vs. 42 that " He knows this". He explains that he came in his Fathers name, and they rejected him, and received other humans that God didnot send. He said he understands that is why they don't believe, in vs. 45 he proclaimed that he willnot accuse them of this before the Father.

Jesus complettely understands WHY people do not believe and reject him. Yet he does not condemn them. His understanding IS their Salvation.

Peace.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Mikiel, you have indeed twisted scripture in this thread many times. Most of us simply have stopped quoting scripture at you because you have shown that you will not listen. You simply ignore any scripture that goes against what you believe. For us to keep quoting scripture at you is to cast pearls before swine.

It is the reverse in my view, christians are the ones who will not listen to the scriptures I have posted. You are ignoring my scriptures posted, and I have posted 110 of them, as opposed to you and your brothers combined 22, I have posted 5 times more the amount of scriptures than you and your brothers. It falls to you to to listen and respond. But you run. You argue with others here for years, within weeks you run from me, that is self explanitory in my view, you fear something. You have nothing for me, you can't deal with me without resorting to name calling and running away with excuses, fearing the debate for obvious reasons. I dealt with each scripture brought to my attention, you or your brothers didNOT deal with each of mine.

But I understand that, it was just too many of them. You were overwhelmed, and perhaps it was just too much for you.

I aploigise for that, its a habit of mine.

Peace.

[mickiel]

The surprise attack on Salvation is no longer a surprise, satan has enlisted religion as his secret weapon, he looks to limit Salvation in the belief of man, by using believers themselves to support and carry his message of limited grace and forgiveness. Like unknowing minds they are led like pied pippers under a dream they have been convinced is real. A dream that God cannot save everybody, but only them and a few more. Like an attack on a most Holy Plan, they are enlisted to spread their posion, as if it is gold.

And I want to go into the " History" behind this incredible deception.

Peace.

[mickiel]

In Rev. 12:9 it describes satans great power;" He deceives the " Whole" world." There is no such thing as a religious group that is exempt from this deception, although they would like to think they are. Look at vs. 10," Now the " Salvation" and the Power and the Kingdom of our God and the Authority of our Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before God day and night." One of the things satan complians to God about, is how believers are condemning unbelievers. He lashes at God;" See how I get them to accept that you have created human Salvation only for a few." See how I have deceived them into thinking Salvation is not free, it cost their acceptance, or they are condemned.

This is the birth of reduced Salvation, a religious deception created by satan. And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Jesus in Matt. 24:4-5;" See to it that no one deceives you, for many will come in my name, saying that I am Christ, and will mislead many." The strongest deception in the 20th century is comming from believers who are saying that Jesus is Christ, admitting belief in him, actually serving him in their traditional ways. And yet misleading others through their traditional doctrines. Jesus didNOT mean humans saying that THEY are Christ, he meant believers confessing that HE is Christ!

Thats what he plainly meant, they will say the HE is Christ, and many just naturally agree with that, and just naturally absorb these false doctrines carried down through the ages. Jeremiah 16:19, latter part of verse;" Our Fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood, futility and things of no gain." Dangerous doctrines of limited Salvation which literally pry wide open their gates of hell. Ever making room for more human condemnation.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Continuing in Matt. 24:11;" And MANY false Prophets will arise, and will mislead many." These will be actual Prophets of our century, who profess Christ as Savior, but they have a problem; Their understanding of Christ , the Living Word, is just " Off base", which is why Jesus called them Prophets who mislead. They themselves, or their followers don't consider themselves as off base, which is why they are deceived. Vs. 24;" For False Christ AND false Prophets will arise and will show GREAT wonders, so as to mislead, and even mislead Gods true annointed, If and when thats possible." Its relatively easy to spot a false Christ, still many have been mislead by even that simple reconition.

How do they show great wonders if they are false? Well by the hidden power of satan. He gives them the power that they think is comming from God. And satans main goal; To reduce the Power of Salvation as much as he can.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Continuing in Matt. 24:11;" And MANY false Prophets will arise, and will mislead many." These will be actual Prophets of our century, who profess Christ as Savior, but they have a problem; Their understanding of Christ , the Living Word, is just " Off base", which is why Jesus called them Prophets who mislead. They themselves, or their followers don't consider themselves as off base, which is why they are deceived. Vs. 24;" For False Christ AND false Prophets will arise and will show GREAT wonders, so as to mislead, and even mislead Gods true annointed, If and when thats possible." Its relatively easy to spot a false Christ, still many have been mislead by even that simple reconition.

How do they show great wonders if they are false? Well by the hidden power of satan. He gives them the power that they think is comming from God. And satans main goal; To reduce the Power of Salvation as much as he can.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Some have asked me by email, Mickiel, why do you talk about Salvation so much? Well because I think its the most important topic on earth right now, really, always has been. And it is also the strongest deceptive trick of satan on earth, he KNOWS he has to bang hard on this subject with his powerful confusion. Many believers in God actually do not believe in the Salvation of all, because they somehow think it is " Pointless", why go through all this and everyone is going to be saved anyway? They think it would make humanity more reckless if they knew they could " Get away with their sin", NO, there must be punishment for it, totally dismissing Christ punishment as the payment for sin, no, humans must pay for it!

They totally misunderstand the REASON why God is putting us through this exposure to sin.

And I want to go into that dynamic.

Peace.