The Reduction of Salvation.

[Rational Gaze]

I am not a Universalist, I don't get along with them, I am banned from the one site of theirs I used to post at. I walk alone in my belief.

In other words, you are so retarded that even the Universalists think you are a nut job.

[mickiel]

John 4:42 calls Jesus " The Savior of the World", the greek " Kosmos." The whole world gets saved. This is no " Salad bar mentality", the bible is slap full of Salvation, 1John 4:14 and 1Tim. 4:10, says the exact same thing as John 4:42 does. I have just as much right to magnify these Salvation verse's, as christian do to magnify condemnation verses. I am simply more interested in Salvation than I am damnation, I search the scriptures for the forgiveness and life of unbelieving humanity, so I am a heretic in christian eyes for doing that. In my view, all of christianity will be saved, although I disagree with them.

In Luke 3:6 its promised that ALL humans shall see the Salvation of the Lord. Thats a prophecy. Jesus is called " A World Savior" by scriptures, those same scriptures state that ALL shall see the Salvation of the Lord;

John 4:42,1John 4:14, 1Tim. 4:10
---------------------------------------------
Luke 3:6 --- this equals Salvation of all, its academic and Mathmatical.


Peace.

[Sparko]

I am not a Universalist, I don't get along with them, I am banned from the one site of theirs I used to post at. I walk alone in my belief. And if the Salad or verses were not in there, I couldnot reference them, or digest them. Gods Judgements are not the horror that christians try to impress on people that they are. In Isaiah 26:9 " For when the earth experiences thy Judgements the inhabitants of the world learn Righteousness. Glory to God, his Judgements result in humans learning to think and do right. In Gal. 3:8 ALL the nations shall be blessed by God, and those nations all have unbelievers in them.

In Titus 2:11 Gods Grace will Appear and GIVE Salvation to ALL of humanity. Oh the salad bar is there for all. 1Chron. 16:34 Gods Loving Kindness is EVERLASTING! Isaian 51:16, the earth will wear out like a garment, but SALVATION will last forever! Isaiah 53:6, Jesus has caused the sin of ALL to fall on him, praise God! That equals the Salvation of that same all.

God shows no Partiality in his Salvation, Gal. 2:6, you can reject him and he will treat you the same as those who accept him, and Love you no less.

Peace.

so not only do you pick and choose which scripture to believe and which to ignore, but you twist scripture to your own ends? Titus 2:11 says that God offers/brings Salvation to all, not that he will GIVE salvation to all. It is up to men to accept or reject the gift.

Titus 2:11 (KJV) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared (5648) to all men,
(NIV) For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

It is referring to Jesus! Jesus is the on who brought the grace of God that has appeared and offers salvation to all men.

[mickiel]

so not only do you pick and choose which scripture to believe and which to ignore, but you twist scripture to your own ends? Titus 2:11 says that God offers/brings Salvation to all, not that he will GIVE salvation to all. It is up to men to accept or reject the gift.

Titus 2:11 (KJV) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared (5648) to all men,
(NIV) For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

It is referring to Jesus! Jesus is the on who brought the grace of God that has appeared and offers salvation to all men.

John 17:2-" Even as thou GAVE him authority over ALL of mankind, that to ALL whom thou has GIVEN him, he may GIVE eternal Life!"

Here God GIVES Jesus ALL of humanity and Jesus said that God GAVE him the Authority to GIVE Salvation to ALL. You can't take the " Give gift" out of this verse christian. You can't reduce the Salvation of all thats in it, although I understand your desire to. You can't manipulate " The Giving of Salvation" out of this verse. Your just going to have to ignore it. But I willnot ignore it. Although your brothers call me ignorant, retarded, heretic, nut job and a whole host of insults, I will stand on the word of God as truth.

Peace.

[Hamster]

I understand your desire to.

Why would a Christian have a desire to take salvation from anyone?

[Sparko]

John 17:2-" Even as thou GAVE him authority over ALL of mankind, that to ALL whom thou has GIVEN him, he may GIVE eternal Life!"

Here God GIVES Jesus ALL of humanity and Jesus said that God GAVE him the Authority to GIVE Salvation to ALL. You can't take the " Give gift" out of this verse christian. You can't reduce the Salvation of all thats in it, although I understand your desire to. You can't manipulate " The Giving of Salvation" out of this verse. Your just going to have to ignore it. But I willnot ignore it. Although your brothers call me ignorant, retarded, heretic, nut job and a whole host of insults, I will stand on the word of God as truth.

Peace.

He can GIVE salvation to whoever he wants, but that doesn't mean they have to accept it. The gift is free, but to get the gift they have to call on the Lord. And to call on the Lord they have to know the gospel. What's the point of preaching the gospel if it is not needed? If everyone is just saved, then there is no need for a gospel. There is no need for the bible, or anything. You live, you die, you end up in heaven. Heck people don't even have to know that there IS a heaven or a God. The whole bible is a pile of toilet paper if you are correct.

[mickiel]

Why would a Christian have a desire to take salvation from anyone?

To hoard it to themselves. Its the spirit of the brother of the prodical son. Those who feel themselves obedient and faithful think it would be unfair of God to just " Give Salvation away to those who have not been like they have been."

Its the big christian " But!" Salvation is free, " But" you must accept it, you must believe, you must obey, you must be baptised, you must go to church. And they don't view those as conditions.

Peace.

[mickiel]

Why would a Christian have a desire to take salvation from anyone?

Look at the spirit in which they are arguing with me here, they don't really want salvation to be free. Its not so much " Taking it away", they don't want unbelievers and rejectors of God to " Have it in the first place." As if that disposition " Disqualifys them", from Gods grace.

Peace.

[Sparko]

To hoard it to themselves. Its the spirit of the brother of the prodical son. Those who feel themselves obedient and faithful think it would be unfair of God to just " Give Salvation away to those who have not been like they have been."

Its the big christian " But!" Salvation is free, " But" you must accept it, you must believe, you must obey, you must be baptised, you must go to church. And they don't view those as conditions.

Peace.

To hoard it??? Then why do we spend so much time preaching salvation through the gospel? Salvation that is free to all who believe and accept the gift?

[RBerman]

Why would a Christian have a desire to take salvation from anyone?

Look at the spirit in which they are arguing with me here, they don't really want salvation to be free. Its not so much " Taking it away", they don't want unbelievers and rejectors of God to " Have it in the first place." As if that disposition " Disqualifys them", from Gods grace.

You're not characterizing your opponents' views fairly. "The spirit in which they are arguing" is that they want to be true to the way that God has revealed himself in the Bible. You may disagree with them about what God has revealed in the Bible, but it's quite uncharitable for you to say that they want for people not to be saved, when all that they want is for God's will to be done.

[mickiel]

To hoard it??? Then why do we spend so much time preaching salvation through the gospel? Salvation that is free to all who believe and accept the gift?

Salvation does not come from preaching, it comes from God. And I think at least 90 % of christian sermons are given to christian audiances anyway.

Peace.

[mickiel]

You're not characterizing your opponents' views fairly. "The spirit in which they are arguing" is that they want to be true to the way that God has revealed himself in the Bible. You may disagree with them about what God has revealed in the Bible, but it's quite uncharitable for you to say that they want for people not to be saved, when all that they want is for God's will to be done.

Well I certainly disagree, I don't see them interpiting Gods will correctly. There are some christians who don't have this attitude I am talking about, yes, I agree with that, but a significant number of them do. Its their attitude toward those who reject God that is ugly to me. Although I believe in God and Christ myself, I understand them condemning me, because they think me a heretic. But those people who reject God, like Atheist, they don't know what their doing, God has not opened them up, but christians don't seem to comprehend that BECAUSE of their love for this free will doctrine.

Salvation has no boundrys, no limits, no " Clauses that exclude", because Gods mind is NOT like that. But the christian mentality IS like that! Atheist NEED the gift of Salvation, as does ANY human who rejects God! They DON'T have tp pay for whats already been sacrificed for by our Lord, but certain christians WANT them to pay, in my view of this. I see christians slice up unbelievers like their worthless pieces of meat. God Loves unbelievers as much as he does believers, I know that to be true, and his Love will save them.

Peace.

[Sparko]

Salvation does not come from preaching, it comes from God. And I think at least 90 % of christian sermons are given to christian audiances anyway.

Peace.

You didn't address my question.

Preaching is not just sermons. It is what we do when we tell others the Gospel. One on one, or to a group. How is trying to share salvation with others "hoarding it for ourselves"

[mickiel]

You didn't address my question.

Preaching is not just sermons. It is what we do when we tell others the Gospel. One on one, or to a group. How is trying to share salvation with others "hoarding it for ourselves"

Because you will reject them if they don't " Become you." Other words if they don't believe it as you do, interpit it as you do, understand it like you do, doctrinize it as you do, you will reject them one on one. Christians are making " Clones of themselves", their not converting people. Your herding people into your churchs and creating christian clones.

Peace.

[Sparko]

Because you will reject them if they don't " Become you." Other words if they don't believe it as you do, interpit it as you do, understand it like you do, doctrinize it as you do, you will reject them one on one. Christians are making " Clones of themselves", their not converting people. Your herding people into your churchs and creating christian clones.

Peace.

Is that not what Jesus did? He chose followers and taught them to be like himself. We all try to be like Jesus (alas we often fail) and we want others to follow Jesus and be like him too. That is what it means to be a Christian - the word itself means "little Christ" - we are to be like him. Christ clones. Just like Jesus was like the Father. If you saw Jesus you saw the Father.

So yes, we want people to be like Christ.