Alma 30 and the Law

[Sparko]

OC brought up a chapter in the BOM in another thread. I read the chapter and found something interesting (not related to what he was referring to in his post)

In Alma 30, it says they followed the Law of Moses strictly.

3 Yea, and the people did observe to keep the commandments of the Lord; and they were strict in observing the ordinances of God, according to the law of Moses; for they were taught to keep the law of Moses until it should be fulfilled.

But then it goes on to say that there was no law against other religions or no religion at all, and no punishment if someone did.

Alma 30:7Now there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.

8For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve.
9Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him.

Now as far as I can tell, this proves that the BoM is a lie. Because the very FIRST law of Moses is:

You shall have no other gods before me.

and the second is:

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

And every time the Israelites worshiped false Gods, starting with the Golden Calf, God punished them.
He never put up with it!

And there were other laws against worshiping other Gods. Especially those like Korihor who was preaching there was no God or preaching other Gods!

Deuteronomy 13

1 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.



12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the LORD your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

There were plenty of laws to punish those who did not worship the true God. And yet Alma 30 says such laws would have been "strictly contrary to the commands of God"


Which book is lying? The bible or the book of mormon?

[Cow Poke]

[JAYMZ]

Its too cold for crickets around here.

[Sparko]

oh and just a note to Jo and the others. Please stay on topic and don't try to detrail my thread. Thank you.

[OtherCheek]

OC brought up a chapter in the BOM in another thread. I read the chapter and found something interesting (not related to what he was referring to in his post)

In Alma 30, it says they followed the Law of Moses strictly.

3 Yea, and the people did observe to keep the commandments of the Lord; and they were strict in observing the ordinances of God, according to the law of Moses; for they were taught to keep the law of Moses until it should be fulfilled.

But then it goes on to say that there was no law against other religions or no religion at all, and no punishment if someone did.

Alma 30:7Now there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.

8For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve.
9Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him.

Now as far as I can tell, this proves that the BoM is a lie. Because the very FIRST law of Moses is:

You shall have no other gods before me.

and the second is:

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

And every time the Israelites worshiped false Gods, starting with the Golden Calf, God punished them.
He never put up with it!

And there were other laws against worshiping other Gods. Especially those like Korihor who was preaching there was no God or preaching other Gods!

Deuteronomy 13

1 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.



12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the LORD your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

There were plenty of laws to punish those who did not worship the true God. And yet Alma 30 says such laws would have been "strictly contrary to the commands of God"


Which book is lying? The bible or the book of mormon?

Sparko,

The laws that God gives to those who covenant to follow him, are not applicable and enforceable on those who have not made such covenants to follow him. But they are applicable and enforceable upon those who have made covenants to follow him. In light of that fact, I don't understand your question.

[Sparko]

Sparko,

The laws that God gives to those who covenant to follow him, are not applicable and enforceable on those who have not made such covenants to follow him. But they are applicable and enforceable upon those who have made covenants to follow him. In light of that fact, I don't understand your question.

Alma 30 doesn't talk about different nations, OC, it talks about MEN, individually deciding who to worship

Alma 30:7Now there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.

8For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve.
9Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him.


and Korihor came into their nation and began to preach against God.

6But it came to pass in the latter end of the seventeenth year, there came a man into the land of Zarahemla, and he was aAnti-Christ, for he began to preach unto the people bagainst the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets, concerning the coming of Christ.

So he wasn't sticking to some outside nation, he came into a nation that was observing the Law of Moses strictly, and began to preach against God and Christ. The verses I posted in the OP clearly cover this situation. The law says he should be put to death. Yet Alma 30 claims that such a law was contrary to God. It clearly was not. Joseph Smith clearly did not know the law of moses very well.

Not only that, but in the bible, God routinely sent the Israelites out to destroy surrounding cities that were pagan and tried to interfere with Israel. He had their towns raized to the ground destroying them down to the women, children and livestock.

[OtherCheek]

Alma 30 doesn't talk about different nations, OC, it talks about MEN, individually deciding who to worship

Alma 30:7Now there was no law against a man’s belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds.

8For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve.
9Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him.


and Korihor came into their nation and began to preach against God.

6But it came to pass in the latter end of the seventeenth year, there came a man into the land of Zarahemla, and he was aAnti-Christ, for he began to preach unto the people bagainst the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets, concerning the coming of Christ.

So he wasn't sticking to some outside nation, he came into a nation that was observing the Law of Moses strictly, and began to preach against God and Christ. The verses I posted in the OP clearly cover this situation. The law says he should be put to death.

Well, so you seem to be saying that the law of Moses was a type of conversion by the sword type of thing, like the Muslims have? That doesn't make sense.

Yet Alma 30 claims that such a law was contrary to God. It clearly was not. Joseph Smith clearly did not know the law of moses very well.

Not only that, but in the bible, God routinely sent the Israelites out to destroy surrounding cities that were pagan and tried to interfere with Israel. He had their towns raized to the ground destroying them down to the women, children and livestock.

I just don't hold to the view that the Law of Moses was a type of jihad conversion by the sword type of law like radical Islam preaches.

Sorry.

[Sparko]

Well, so you seem to be saying that the law of Moses was a type of conversion by the sword type of thing, like the Muslims have? That doesn't make sense.



I just don't hold to the view that the Law of Moses was a type of jihad conversion by the sword type of law like radical Islam preaches.

Sorry.

so now you want to burn straw in an attempt to avoid the problem?

Read your bible. they didn't conquer their enemies and convert them. they utterly destroyed them. You HAVE read the bible, right?

You do remember when they took over the "promised land" right?

Deut 20:
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

Why did God tell them to utterly destroy those people? Because they would teach them to worship other gods. So with God it wasn't "just let them be and worship however they want because they are not under the covenant"



Now back to the OP please. There were clear laws against people trying to lead God's people away from God, whether to false Gods or to worship no god at all. They were to be put to death. So Alma 30 is wrong. It is a lie to say that any such law was against God's commandments.

[OtherCheek]

so now you want to burn straw in an attempt to avoid the problem?

Read your bible. they didn't conquer their enemies and convert them. they utterly destroyed them. You HAVE read the bible, right?

Well, why do you think they destroyed them?

Is it consistent with the God that you know, to wipe out whole nations and cities without first sending prophets to them to warn them and to preach repentance?

You do remember when they took over the "promised land" right?

Deut 20:
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

Why did God tell them to utterly destroy those people? Because they would teach them to worship other gods. So with God it wasn't "just let them be and worship however they want because they are not under the covenant"

Sorry, I don't believe God wipes out cities and nations without warning them first. That principle isn't in the Bible, I guess, but it sure in in my conscience, and it's taught in the BoM. So, if you are going to try to grab one segment from the BoM, and ignore the rest of the BoM, that is called dishonesty.

Now back to the OP please. There were clear laws against people trying to lead God's people away from God, whether to false Gods or to worship no god at all. They were to be put to death. So Alma 30 is wrong. It is a lie to say that any such law was against God's commandments.

Do you want me to answer consistent with what my beliefs and conscience are, or answer according to what will appease you?

[Sparko]

Well, why do you think they destroyed them?

Is it consistent with the God that you know, to wipe out whole nations and cities without first sending prophets to them to warn them and to preach repentance?



Sorry, I don't believe God wipes out cities and nations without warning them first. That principle isn't in the Bible, I guess, but it sure in in my conscience, and it's taught in the BoM. So, if you are going to try to grab one segment from the BoM, and ignore the rest of the BoM, that is called dishonesty.

wow, so you are saying the bible is lying when it records those events? You take the BoM over the Bible?



and yes, that principle IS in the bible. I just quoted it for you. Reject it if you will, but it IS in the bible.

Do you want me to answer consistent with what my beliefs and conscience are, or answer according to what will appease you?

If you are rejecting the bible and accepting the BoM in it's place, then I don't want you to even answer at all. Your answers are totally useless here. I am trying to show how Alma 30 contradicts the bible. You apparently agree with that but reject the bible in favor of Alma. That's all I need to know.

[OtherCheek]

wow, so you are saying the bible is lying when it records those events? You take the BoM over the Bible?



and yes, that principle IS in the bible. I just quoted it for you. Reject it if you will, but it IS in the bible.




If you are rejecting the bible and accepting the BoM in it's place, then I don't want you to even answer at all. Your answers are totally useless here. I am trying to show how Alma 30 contradicts the bible. You apparently agree with that but reject the bible in favor of Alma. That's all I need to know.

I have reason to believe that God does not destroy a people unless they have first been visited by prophets telling them to repent. What is your reason to believe that God does destroy a people without first sending prophets, to warn them to repent? Does the Bible specifically say that God had these people destroyed by the Israelites without warning them first?

Do you remember Ninevah?

[Sparko]

I have reason to believe that God does not destroy a people unless they have first been visited by prophets telling them to repent. What is your reason to believe that God does destroy a people without first sending prophets, to warn them to repent? Does the Bible specifically say that God had these people destroyed by the Israelites without warning them first?

Do you remember Ninevah?

That should be easy for you to find out OC. Just go and READ the bible. Then when you find where God sent in prophets to warn them, you can post it here and prove me wrong.

But no matter, it still has no bearing on the Alma 30 case. In that case the "prophet" was being sent from the OUTSIDE to corrupt God's people. Can you show me one instance in the bible where that happened and God said "Oh that's fine, he can believe and teach my people whatever he wants"

As I posted above, the Law of Moses specifically states that if anyone tries to corrupt God's people and lead them to worship anyone but God, they are to be killed.

Deuteronomy 13:
1 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.



12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the LORD your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

Now I know you can read, so please read the above part of the Law of Moses and tell me if God or the Israelites would have allowed someone like Kohinor to come into Israel and preach against God without being killed?

and Alma 30 says such laws would have been "strictly contrary to the commands of God" - so is Deuteronomy strictly contrary to the commands of God? Yes or No?

[OtherCheek]

That should be easy for you to find out OC. Just go and READ the bible. Then when you find where God sent in prophets to warn them, you can post it here and prove me wrong.

Nineva? Jonah? Before the flood? Noah? I simply believe that God does not indiscriminately destroy a nation or a city or a people unless they are wicked, and he will warn them first to repent.

But no matter, it still has no bearing on the Alma 30 case. In that case the "prophet" was being sent from the OUTSIDE to corrupt God's people.

Korihor was not a prophet. He never claimed to be and it is never said that he was.

Can you show me one instance in the bible where that happened and God said "Oh that's fine, he can believe and teach my people whatever he wants"

Why would God ever be ok with an anti-christ teaching his people to reject Christ? Did you know what happened to Korihor? It wasn't the laws of the land that killed him. But he did die an ignominious death.

As I posted above, the Law of Moses specifically states that if anyone tries to corrupt God's people and lead them to worship anyone but God, they are to be killed.

Deuteronomy 13:
1 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the LORD your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

The political and governmental system of the Nephites was not like that of the Jews. The Nephite system was closer to that of the American Constitutional system, where constitutional laws were answerable equally for everyone. This was not the system of the Jews, who were under the rule of Kings, and certain people were placed above the civil law. The Nephite system after the establishment of the reign of judges, (Mosiah's time) was a system of separation of church and state so to speak. There was freedom of belief and conscience. Apparently there was no freedom of belief or conscience under the Jewish system.

That's the answer, and you can whine about it all you want, but that's the answer I would give.

Now I know you can read, so please read the above part of the Law of Moses and tell me if God or the Israelites would have allowed someone like Kohinor to come into Israel and preach against God without being killed?

No, they would have killed him, I'm sure. I don't think the the "law of Moses" that the Nephites obeyed required the merging of church and state into some type of theocracy. There was the punishment that the church meted out, and there was the punishment that the state meted out, but they were separate.

and Alma 30 says such laws would have been "strictly contrary to the commands of God" - so is Deuteronomy strictly contrary to the commands of God? Yes or No?

Yes and No.

[OtherCheek]

That should be easy for you to find out OC. Just go and READ the bible. Then when you find where God sent in prophets to warn them, you can post it here and prove me wrong.

Nineva? Jonah? Before the flood? Noah? I simply believe that God does not indiscriminately destroy a nation or a city or a people unless they are wicked, and he will warn them first to repent.

But no matter, it still has no bearing on the Alma 30 case. In that case the "prophet" was being sent from the OUTSIDE to corrupt God's people.

Korihor was not a prophet. He never claimed to be and it is never said that he was.

Can you show me one instance in the bible where that happened and God said "Oh that's fine, he can believe and teach my people whatever he wants"

Why would God ever be ok with an anti-christ teaching his people to reject Christ? Did you know what happened to Korihor? It wasn't the laws of the land that killed him. But he did die an ignominious death.

As I posted above, the Law of Moses specifically states that if anyone tries to corrupt God's people and lead them to worship anyone but God, they are to be killed.

Deuteronomy 13:
1 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt, 17 and none of the condemned things[c] are to be found in your hands. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger, will show you mercy, and will have compassion on you. He will increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your ancestors— 18 because you obey the LORD your God by keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.

The political and governmental system of the Nephites was not like that of the Jews. The Nephite system was closer to that of the American Constitutional system, where constitutional laws were answerable equally for everyone. This was not the system of the Jews, who were under the rule of Kings, and certain people were placed above the civil law. The Nephite system after the establishment of the reign of judges, (Mosiah's time) was a system of separation of church and state so to speak. There was freedom of belief and conscience. Apparently there was no freedom of belief or conscience under the Jewish system.

That's the answer, and you can whine about it all you want, but that's the answer I would give.

Now I know you can read, so please read the above part of the Law of Moses and tell me if God or the Israelites would have allowed someone like Kohinor to come into Israel and preach against God without being killed?

It's "Korihor" silly.

No, they would have killed him, I'm sure. I don't think the the "law of Moses" that the Nephites obeyed required the merging of church and state into some type of theocracy. There was the punishment that the church meted out, and there was the punishment that the state meted out, but they were separate.

and Alma 30 says such laws would have been "strictly contrary to the commands of God" - so is Deuteronomy strictly contrary to the commands of God? Yes or No?

Yes and No.

[Sparko]

Nineva? Jonah? Before the flood? Noah? I simply believe that God does not indiscriminately destroy a nation or a city or a people unless they are wicked, and he will warn them first to repent.

we were talking about when they entered the promised land. I quoted you the verses where God told them to go into Canaan and destroy all the people. You said God wouldn't do that without sending in a prophet first. So show me where he sent in a prophet. You can't.

Korihor was not a prophet. He never claimed to be and it is never said that he was.

And Deuteronomy doesn't end with just "prophets" - it goes on to mention if anyone was to come and teach against God, he should be destroyed. Heck even your own family! And if some other town were to start leading people against God, the whole town should be destroyed!

Why would God ever be ok with an anti-christ teaching his people to reject Christ? Did you know what happened to Korihor? It wasn't the laws of the land that killed him. But he did die an ignominious death.

So God wasn't OK with it after all? Alma 30 said that any law that stopped someone from believing in whatever God they wanted (or no God) was against the commands of God! So now you are saying that God went against his own commands???

The political and governmental system of the Nephites was not like that of the Jews. The Nephite system was closer to that of the American Constitutional system, where constitutional laws were answerable equally for everyone. This was not the system of the Jews, who were under the rule of Kings, and certain people were placed above the civil law. The Nephite system after the establishment of the reign of judges, (Mosiah's time) was a system of separation of church and state so to speak. There was freedom of belief and conscience. Apparently there was no freedom of belief or conscience under the Jewish system.

Again, Alma 30 says they followed the Law of Moses strictly. Now you say they didn't, that they had some more modern constitutional system. You are just making stuff up in an attempt to excuse the glaring fact that Alma 30 is nothing but a fake. You can see it yourself and find yourself having to make up stuff to rationalize it all.

1. Alma 30 says that it was against God's commands to have any laws that prohibited any man from worshiping any God or no God.
1B - Deuteronomy 13 gives the very laws that contradict that and say that anyone who worships another God or leads God's people to worship any other God shall be put to death.

2. Alma 30 says they followed the Law of Moses strictly.
2b. #1b above shows they did not do that at all. In fact they were in violation of the Law of Moses.

That's the answer, and you can whine about it all you want, but that's the answer I would give.

and you have shown everyone here that you will just make up stuff instead of confronting the problem head on.

No, they would have killed him, I'm sure.

exactly. Because that is what the Law of Moses said to do. So if the Nephites were following the Law of Moses strictly, then they should have done the same.

I don't think the the "law of Moses" that the Nephites obeyed required the merging of church and state into some type of theocracy. There was the punishment that the church meted out, and there was the punishment that the state meted out, but they were separate.

Then they were not following the Law of Moses.

Therefore Alma 30 is a lie.