Forgiveness and Unrepented sin

[jo7241974]

Jaymz,

I am still wondering what you have to say about the sins you repented of when you were baptized. Why did you need to repent since Jesus had already Atoned for them?

Thanks,

jo

[jo7241974]

Interesting.... But I'll wait for OC to answer. Thanks.

Hi CP,

That was his concluding comment after having presented all of those scriptures about being prepared for when the Lord comes. I don't think he changed subjects when he switched from scripture to his own thoughts.

I think you are purposely trying to start a fight with OC.

jo

[jo7241974]

(Maybe you guys just sin too much -- I am comforted by my relationship with Christ. )

[Cow Poke]

Yes I am!

[OtherCheek]

I've been thinking about this pretty much all day.
When angels encounter humans, one of the first things they say is "be not afraid".

Jesus began the discourse of John 14 with "Let not your heart be troubled".
2 Tim 1:7 says "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
1 Cor 14:33 says "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Jesus' encounter with the demoniac resulted in "peace".
Jesus offers peace to us, not as the world gives peace, but HIS peace.

And because I know Jesus as my Savior, I have peace that passes understanding (Phil 4:7)

The Holy Spirit is "the Comforter" (John 14:16) and abides with us forever.
If God be for us, who can be against us? (Rom 8:31)

OC, I'm sure you have something in mind when you say Christianity should make us uncomfortable, but I am not getting it. This WORLD makes me uncomfortable, like one of my favorite songs...

This world is not my home, I'm just a passin' thru
My treasures are laid up somewhere beyond the blue
The angels beckon me from Heaven's open door
and I can't feel at home in this world anymore.

If it weren't for "Christianity", I would not have the peace I have.

I'm aware of all of those. But consider another angle for a moment.

I think C.S. Lewis expressed my sentiments in this quote: (Except for the bottle of Port, I would need something like a super buffet)

"I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity."
— C.S. Lewis"

To me, true Christianity means passing through a trial by fire before being proven worthy to stand in God's presence.

"Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of -- throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace..."

-- C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity

This is not an easy process. The Lord will prune his vineyard, and to actually submit willingly to all he would do in our behalf to improve us, is not a life associated with "comfort and ease" in my mind. It is a life filled with a lot of self-denial and course correction. I am willing to submit to his will, but it is not always easy.

It is natural for the clay to resist the shaping of the Potter. It is not always comfortable to be made into something other than a lump.

[Cow Poke]

To me, true Christianity means passing through a trial by fire before being proven worthy to stand in God's presence.

Well, yeah, but having confidence in Christ to see you through, and coming out on the other end is a real sense of Joy... part of the "fellowship of suffering".. sure, it can be uncomfortable for a season, but over all, it's liberating.

"Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of -- throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace..."

This is not an easy process. The Lord will prune his vineyard, and willing submitting to all he would do in our behalf is not associated with "comfort and ease" in my mind.

Again, sure, there are "moments", but any suffering we do here, compared to eternity, is nothing.
I think I understand what you're saying, though, and wasn't trying to start anything.

Perhaps you're looking at the "uncomfortable moments", and I'm looking at them in the perspective of eternity?

If you understand the process, it's a JOY to yield to Christ for this "pruning", knowing that we will be better "on the other side".

[OtherCheek]

Well, yeah, but having confidence in Christ to see you through, and coming out on the other end is a real sense of Joy... part of the "fellowship of suffering".. sure, it can be uncomfortable for a season, but over all, it's liberating.

Again, sure, there are "moments", but any suffering we do here, compared to eternity, is nothing.
I think I understand what you're saying, though, and wasn't trying to start anything.

Perhaps you're looking at the "uncomfortable moments", and I'm looking at them in the perspective of eternity?

If you understand the process, it's a JOY to yield to Christ for this "pruning", knowing that we will be better "on the other side".

I added more, and corrected some type-os.

Basically, yes, in the end, all of our tears will be dried. And I do have the confidence that all will be well in then end. But that is after the trial, the test, the firing process is complete and the finished product is realized and put to good use.

The personal suffering we go through is often the easiest. More difficult is bearing with the suffering of loved ones and little ones.

[Cow Poke]

I added more, and corrected some type-os.

Basically, yes, in the end, all of our tears will be dried. And I do have the confidence that all will be well in then end. But that is after the trial, the test, the firing process is complete and the finished product is realized and put to good use.

And you realize I don't have a "fight" here... was just curious?
There just seems to be an emphasis on the "negative" in your world view, and I tend to take that in stride as "part of the process". I've been through some heartache, and some pretty tough trials, but I always look at it as "nothing" compared to the sufferings of Christ.

Here's the scripture that has always given me comfort....

Scripture Verse:

Phil 3:7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Again, it puts me in mind of the slaves who had PLENTY of reason to be miserable, but would spend their evenings around the campfire singing what we now refer to as "negro spirituals", which are some incredibly "positive" and uplifting songs.

And, more...

Scripture Verse:

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

There is JOY in the trials - and this is a fundamental part of my worldview, regarding Christianity.

[OtherCheek]

And you realize I don't have a "fight" here... was just curious?
There just seems to be an emphasis on the "negative" in your world view, and I tend to take that in stride as "part of the process". I've been through some heartache, and some pretty tough trials, but I always look at it as "nothing" compared to the sufferings of Christ.

Here's the scripture that has always given me comfort....

Scripture Verse:

Phil 3:7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Again, it puts me in mind of the slaves who had PLENTY of reason to be miserable, but would spend their evenings around the campfire singing what we now refer to as "negro spirituals", which are some incredibly "positive" and uplifting songs.

And, more...

Scripture Verse:

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

There is JOY in the trials - and this is a fundamental part of my worldview, regarding Christianity.

Thanks, CP. I do find joy during trials knowing that God is in charge and is making something useful out of us. That is encouraging. But the depths are not comfortable or pleasant, in my experience. There is the hope of being brought back on top again, but the depths are still not pleasant, in my experience while they are happening.

[Cow Poke]

Thanks, CP. I do find joy during trials knowing that God is in charge and is making something useful out of us. That is encouraging. But the depths are not comfortable or pleasant, in my experience. There is the hope of being brought back on top again, but the depths are still not pleasant, in my experience while they are happening.

Understood. I just take James 1:2 as "advice", and make a point to look for the "joy", knowing the outcome is sure. But, yes, there can certainly be some challenging times.

[OtherCheek]

Understood. I just take James 1:2 as "advice", and make a point to look for the "joy", knowing the outcome is sure. But, yes, there can certainly be some challenging times.

Yes, that is right. I agree.

It's just this thing about PATIENCE? I've determined that it's something God needs to give us on the spot, without waiting. I'll have a talk with Him tonight and advise him that He's doing things all wrong when it comes to giving us patience.

Merry Christmas

[Cow Poke]

Yes, that is right. I agree.

It's just this thing about PATIENCE? I've determined that it's something God needs to give us on the spot, without waiting. I'll have a talk with Him tonight and advise him that He's doing things all wrong when it comes to giving us patience.

Merry Christmas

I was being sincere, OC. Not sure what you're getting at here. What James was talking about in 1:3 is obviously a "process". It says "knowing this", that the trying of your faith worketh patience. If we KNOW that, then we take God at His word, and, to be overly simple, there are 2 rules....

1) don't sweat the small stuff
2) It's ALL small stuff

Merry Christmas to you, again!

[OtherCheek]

I was being sincere, OC. Not sure what you're getting at here. What James was talking about in 1:3 is obviously a "process". It says "knowing this", that the trying of your faith worketh patience. If we KNOW that, then we take God at His word, and, to be overly simple, there are 2 rules....

I know you were. and I agree.

And I was being mirthful in what I wrote.

[Cow Poke]

I know you were. and I agree.

And I was being mirthful in what I wrote.

We're good. Let's get through Christmas, then we can end the truce and go back to war.

[JAYMZ]

Jaymz,

I am still wondering what you have to say about the sins you repented of when you were baptized. Why did you need to repent since Jesus had already Atoned for them?

Thanks,

jo

You still don't understand that its faith in Christ that saves you, not asking for forgiveness of every sin you may committed before realizing you need Christ. Repenting really is more about how you feel about Christ, than repenting from certain sins. The minute one turns to Christ as Lord, THEN the Holy Spirit gives you a new outlook in life. To do things Gods way, instead your way.

It has to start with the attitude of a beggar reaching out his hand to receive the gift of a King. Then, you dedicate yourself in service to that King.

Servants mess up sometimes.