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Bill Nye The Idiot Guy

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    Only to the sneering religionists trying to catch science out. Bill Nye did not say that. "An image purportedly showing a still from an old episode of "Bill Nye the Science Guy" bears a completely invented caption".

    http://www.snopes.com/bill-nye-gender-chromosomes/
    "He didn't use those exact words, so it's false!" -

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    • #17
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Bill Nye The Idiot Guy
      I always think bow-ties make people look like idiots.

      The Blaze? Seriously?

      Back in 1996, the popular PBS program “Bill Nye the Science Guy” taught kids that there are only two genders, determined by whether you have “XX” or “XY” chromosomes.
      Hmm, I would have thought that some of the alternative chromosomal arrangements (X, XXY, XYY, XXYY, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX) were known back then, as well as instances of XX males or XY females due to androgen insensitivity syndrome. So has he issued a correction on this?

      TV personality Bill Nye has since seen the politically correct light, and his new show on Netflix, “Bill Nye Saves the World,” teaches that “sexuality is a spectrum.”
      Er, we seem to have changed topics from gender to sexuality. Do you realize those are different topics?

      Of course sexuality is a spectrum, that's just factual and I wouldn't have thought even the most zealous conservatives would deny it. For example, here were recent survey results of people rating themselves on the Kinsey scale (0 - exclusively heterosexual, 7 - exclusively homosexual):


      Obviously some people are complete heterosexual and never the least bit sexually attracted in any way to members of the same sex, and vice versa for completely homosexual people. Other people fall into a wide bisexual range where they are attracted in various different amounts to both members of both sexes.

      I assume that both you Seer and the original source at the Blazing wackos have confused 'sexuality' and 'gender' and understood this to mean that Bill Nye was now teaching that gender is a spectrum?


      P.S. I've watched some clips from the episode and it seems Nye does actually cover topics of both sexuality and gender. He actually says exactly what I said above that we used to think sex was a matter of being "male" or "female" due to being XX or XY but we've actually learned it can be more complicated at both the genetic and hormonal levels. He also covers variations in sexual orientations. He also discusses variations in gender identification, but his comments seem to be of the form that "it's a fact that the gender some people identify as doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth".
      Last edited by Starlight; 04-29-2017, 03:33 AM.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Obviously some people are complete heterosexual and never the least bit sexually attracted in any way to members of the same sex, and vice versa for completely homosexual people. Other people fall into a wide bisexual range where they are attracted in various different amounts to both members of both sexes.

        I assume that both you Seer and the original source at the Blazing wackos have confused 'sexuality' and 'gender' and understood this to mean that Bill Nye was now teaching that gender is a spectrum?


        P.S. I've watched some clips from the episode and it seems Nye does actually cover topics of both sexuality and gender. He actually says exactly what I said above that we used to think sex was a matter of being "male" or "female" due to being XX or XY but we've actually learned it can be more complicated at both the genetic and hormonal levels. He also covers variations in sexual orientations. He also discusses variations in gender identification, but his comments seem to be of the form that "it's a fact that the gender some people identify as doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth".
        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post

        It is an accurate representation of Nye's views. He claims his views "evolved"
        Nope!

        ^^What he said.^^
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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        • #19
          Back in 1996, the popular PBS program “Bill Nye the Science Guy” taught kids that there are only two genders, determined by whether you have “XX” or “XY” chromosomes.
          There are women born with XY chromosomes, with both primary and secondary female sexual characteristics. They're female both in terms of psychology and physically. The difference that caused them to develop as females despite their chromosome arrangement is that they have total androgen insensitivity, so their cells never responded to testosterone.

          XY != Male, the essence of masculinity cannot be reduced to a combination of two letters. The particular arrangement of chromosomes influences what sort of sex we're, they are an effective cause, but not essentially what a person's sex is.

          There are also people with a mixture of XX and XY cells due to two twins fusing in utero. Sex is a little complicated than XX and XY.
          Edited by a Moderator
          Last edited by Sparko; 04-29-2017, 06:29 AM.

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          • #20
            As for Bill Nye's show in itself, I haven't seen much of it. I was at a friend's place, and it was covering explanations for why the oceans are rising in response to temperature increases. I didn't like the tone or the appearance of Bill Nye, and the show came off a bit gimmicky and circus act like. It made me long for Carl Sagan.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              I always think bow-ties make people look like idiots.

              The Blaze? Seriously?

              Hmm, I would have thought that some of the alternative chromosomal arrangements (X, XXY, XYY, XXYY, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX) were known back then, as well as instances of XX males or XY females due to androgen insensitivity syndrome. So has he issued a correction on this?

              Er, we seem to have changed topics from gender to sexuality. Do you realize those are different topics?

              Of course sexuality is a spectrum, that's just factual and I wouldn't have thought even the most zealous conservatives would deny it. For example, here were recent survey results of people rating themselves on the Kinsey scale (0 - exclusively heterosexual, 7 - exclusively homosexual):


              Obviously some people are complete heterosexual and never the least bit sexually attracted in any way to members of the same sex, and vice versa for completely homosexual people. Other people fall into a wide bisexual range where they are attracted in various different amounts to both members of both sexes.

              I assume that both you Seer and the original source at the Blazing wackos have confused 'sexuality' and 'gender' and understood this to mean that Bill Nye was now teaching that gender is a spectrum?


              P.S. I've watched some clips from the episode and it seems Nye does actually cover topics of both sexuality and gender. He actually says exactly what I said above that we used to think sex was a matter of being "male" or "female" due to being XX or XY but we've actually learned it can be more complicated at both the genetic and hormonal levels. He also covers variations in sexual orientations. He also discusses variations in gender identification, but his comments seem to be of the form that "it's a fact that the gender some people identify as doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth".


              here is the problem Starlight. Liberals now say that gender is a social construct, and chromosomes have nothing to do with it. you can be a biological male but identify as female or anywhere in between. YET at the same time you guys argue that gender isn't binary because of chromosome anomalies. which is it? is gender based on chromosomes or is it a social construct? Is it science or is it feelings?

              Crowder has an excellent review of this and Bill Nye in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVkZiHZUYE (warning, it has some profanity in it and sexual situations)

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Sparko
                is gender based on chromosomes or is it a social construct? Is it science or is it feelings?
                I've always argued that this is a false dichotomy. Just because our sex is caused by chrosomes, it doesn't mean that chrosomes determine our sex. I'm not male because I have XY, I'm male because I have primary, secondary masculine characteristics and that I (aside from periodic bouts of gender dysphoria) identify as male.

                Would I be 50% female, if for some reason I had half and half XX and XY cells?

                Is the woman in the picture I posted in #19 male, despite having breasts she developed in puberty and a vagina she was born with, because she has XY chrososomes?

                Just because sex isn't malleable, it doesn't mean that people arguing for essentialism with regards to sex shouldn't actually deal with the science.
                Last edited by Leonhard; 04-29-2017, 06:55 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Liberals now say that gender is a social construct, and chromosomes have nothing to do with it.
                  Um, so? That is obviously true. Gender, which I understand to mean essentially "behavioral patterns" like "wears dresses, has long hair, wears makeup and jewelry" etc have always been social constructs. Most societies in human history have had 3-5 genders, and the Europe of the last millennium was kind of the odd society out for having only two genders that didn't allow people any freedom of gender choice and tied them tightly to biological sex. To get the difference clear in your mind: Biological sex - the genitalia that is between your legs - is what it is and isn't a 'choice' (though modern medical science could help you change it if you wanted I guess), whereas questions of how you behave - e.g. if you choose to wear dresses or not, are obviously a choice, and that is "gender". How you behave need have nothing to do with your biological sex. A person could potentially go their whole life behaving like a man without anyone realizing they were actually a woman. I have read claims that one Pope in the early middle ages was a woman who pretended to be a man.

                  you can be a biological male but identify as female or anywhere in between.
                  Since gender is a social construct and behavioral patterns, it is obviously up to society to create any set of behavioral patterns it likes, or for individuals to forge new ones.

                  YET at the same time you guys argue that gender isn't binary because of chromosome anomalies.
                  Biological sex isn't binary because of chromosomal anomalies. So there is non-binaryness at both the genetic and hormonal levels at which 'biological sex' operates, as well and the cultural level at which gender constructs operate.

                  is gender based on chromosomes or is it a social construct? Is it science or is it feelings?
                  Biological sex is a thing that is based on chromosomes and hormones, and it is scientifically measurable. It's a measure of things like the physical anatomy of a person and what parts they have.

                  Gender roles are social behavioral patterns that govern things like what a person wears and what jobs they perform. Obviously a person's feelings determine which of the available social behavioral patterns that society offers that they will follow. Or they can choose to trail-blaze their own path. For example, in the 20th century in the West, women increasingly rejected the gender role of being homemakers and instead opted for full time work in jobs previously understood to be 'male' roles.
                  Last edited by Starlight; 04-29-2017, 07:41 AM.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                    Do you read your own links?



                    It is an accurate representation of Nye's views. He claims his views "evolved" (IE: He abandoned science and swallowed SJW nutjobbery).
                    Second hand selective sound bites do not reflect Bill Nye's view. Simplistic descriptions of basic genetics in science is not contemporary comprehensive enough to define the contemporary spectrum of genetic identity. This 1996 simple description does not reflect the knowledge of science of human gender identity in 1996.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      I always think bow-ties make people look like idiots.

                      The Blaze? Seriously?

                      Hmm, I would have thought that some of the alternative chromosomal arrangements (X, XXY, XYY, XXYY, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX) were known back then, as well as instances of XX males or XY females due to androgen insensitivity syndrome. So has he issued a correction on this?

                      Er, we seem to have changed topics from gender to sexuality. Do you realize those are different topics?

                      Of course sexuality is a spectrum, that's just factual and I wouldn't have thought even the most zealous conservatives would deny it. For example, here were recent survey results of people rating themselves on the Kinsey scale (0 - exclusively heterosexual, 7 - exclusively homosexual):


                      Obviously some people are complete heterosexual and never the least bit sexually attracted in any way to members of the same sex, and vice versa for completely homosexual people. Other people fall into a wide bisexual range where they are attracted in various different amounts to both members of both sexes.

                      I assume that both you Seer and the original source at the Blazing wackos have confused 'sexuality' and 'gender' and understood this to mean that Bill Nye was now teaching that gender is a spectrum?


                      P.S. I've watched some clips from the episode and it seems Nye does actually cover topics of both sexuality and gender. He actually says exactly what I said above that we used to think sex was a matter of being "male" or "female" due to being XX or XY but we've actually learned it can be more complicated at both the genetic and hormonal levels. He also covers variations in sexual orientations. He also discusses variations in gender identification, but his comments seem to be of the form that "it's a fact that the gender some people identify as doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth".
                      Something tells me that this is like one of those "studies" that asks people if in the past year or so have they ever gone to bed hungry and if you answer "yes" (and just about everyone I know could probably answer to the affirmative) that is used to show that hunger/starvation/malnutrition is a real problem in the U.S.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        P.S. I've watched some clips from the episode and it seems Nye does actually cover topics of both sexuality and gender. He actually says exactly what I said above that we used to think sex was a matter of being "male" or "female" due to being XX or XY but we've actually learned it can be more complicated at both the genetic and hormonal levels.

                        Except it's not more complicated. Any deviation from that norm is a disorder, not another equally valid sexuality like Nye and the SJW squad claim.
                        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Second hand selective sound bites do not reflect Bill Nye's view. Simplistic descriptions of basic genetics in science is not contemporary comprehensive enough to define the contemporary spectrum of genetic identity. This 1996 simple description does not reflect the knowledge of science of human gender identity in 1996.
                          Yes it does. The only thing that has changed is that psychopaths like you and the rest of the progressive movement are trying to pass off disorders as perfectly normal and equally valid "alternate" sexualities. There is male and female. There is no other sex, and there are not 3-5 genders, regardless of what some tribal savages who barely discovered fire may or may not have thought (there's no reason to buy Starlight's claim on this given that he routinely gets day old news wrong).
                          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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                            • #29
                              I've not watched the Nye clips, but sex, gender, and sexuality are topics that are really complicated*, which makes language use really important. Any statement that's not carefully thought out can end up being really stupid, and can provoke equally stupid responses - people are sensitive about this stuff. It really behooves anyone talking about this topic to know exactly what they're talking about first, and then be extraordinarily careful with language once they open their mouths.

                              Sadly, most people can't be bothered with either. I'm not going to watch the Nye clips because he's not always that careful, and i won't have the opportunity to ask him what he was actually trying to talk about.


                              * Sex is typically reserved for the actual biology. The basic XX/XY is simple, but, as someone noted above this often goes wrong, leaving people with an ambiguous signal. And that signal has to be interpreted by various hormone and signaling pathways, which can also go wrong. So, you can get anything from a complete mismatch of chromosomal and physical sex to various intermediate states such as improper development of one type of genital or development of both types.

                              Gender is how we as a society deal with that biological sex. Accordingly, it's a mix of biology and social influences. This can involve anything from real physical differences - female athletes tend to tear their anterior cruciate ligaments more often, to give just one (somewhat odd) example - to purely social things, like the color we associate with each sex (150 years ago, pink was the manly, boy's color in the US). And our understanding of these change over time. Lots of people thought the math gap between boys and girls was biological, but it turns out it's going away in more egalitarian societies, while the reading gap is persisting (we don't know why).

                              Sexuality is the behaviors and preferences we have when engaging in sex. It's pretty clear that any significantly sized human population will have a large diversity of ideas here.
                              "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                                I've always argued that this is a false dichotomy. Just because our sex is caused by chrosomes, it doesn't mean that chrosomes determine our sex. I'm not male because I have XY, I'm male because I have primary, secondary masculine characteristics and that I (aside from periodic bouts of gender dysphoria) identify as male.

                                Would I be 50% female, if for some reason I had half and half XX and XY cells?

                                Is the woman in the picture I posted in #19 male, despite having breasts she developed in puberty and a vagina she was born with, because she has XY chrososomes?

                                Just because sex isn't malleable, it doesn't mean that people arguing for essentialism with regards to sex shouldn't actually deal with the science.
                                when you have to resort to very rare mutations to argue for your point you have just shot your argument in the head.

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