Originally posted by Christianbookworm
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Now They Are Going After Breastfeeding...
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Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostThe boys in lab coats are still the little wimps we pushed around in high school.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostIf breastfeeding doesn't fit the definition of natural then what does?
Science has no opinion on social/moral issues."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Sparko View Posthey scientist. Breastfeeding is evolutionarilly designed to be healthy for the infant.
Evolution designed it to be the way infants get their nourishment and their immune system.
to argue that it may not be healthy so we should not use the word 'natural' is stoopid."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by seer View PostLOL, things haven't changed!"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostBreast pumping is rather uncomfortable for the woman (and in some cases downright painful)
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI've seen people use the term 'natural' to excuse all kinds of progressive behavior.
For example: Having multiple sexual partners is seen all throughout the animal kingdom. It is natural.
But I don't think "natural" is a particularly good marketing tool. Genocide of the opposition tribes appears to have also been a common practice in human history. It's 'natural' in that sense. Most fetuses self-terminate, so abortion is 'natural' in that sense. Humans wearing clothes and living in houses and flying in airplanes is 'unnatural', but it doesn't make those things bad. So I don't think the label of 'natural' or 'unnatural' is generally a very useful one.
Can we expect that in the future you won't be using the term natural to market your behavior?
That aside, I think if you believe that evolution has given advantages to breast feeding that the term natural really is a solid selling point.
Why not say, "Hey idiot, nature provided this really excellent way to ensure health for your kid. How about you do that?"
Then do society a huge favor and OWN the terminology.
Don't let nitwit feminists color the term natural with their baggage.
Stop letting idiots change the meaning of words.Last edited by Starlight; 04-29-2017, 09:50 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIt's not so much the definition of natural that is relevant here, as is the question of potential misuses of natural as a marketing term. It is generally a bad idea to instill in the general public a sense that "natural" is good when it comes to health and "artificial" is bad, because this leads to people trying to use dubious and harmful "natural" alternative health remedies rather than "artificial" scientific medical ones that have been proven to work.
“Coupling nature with motherhood… can inadvertently support biologically deterministic arguments about the roles of men and women in the family (for example, that women should be the primary caretaker}
It’s “ethically inappropriate” for government and medical organizations to describe breastfeeding as “natural” because the term enforces rigid notions about gender roles.
Science provides us facts about the world. Insofar as your views on social/moral issues are based on reality rather than your imagination, science is highly relevant. For me, morality is about maximizing human freedom and well-being...
So any scientific discoveries or observations that speak to how happy people are in different situations and what consequences political policies have on them, are directly relevant to morality.
In a way I would say that science should completely informs opinion on social/moral issues, and anyone who attempts to speak on such issues aside from using science (such as you seer) is talking nonsense.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostDoes science tell you that maximizing human freedom and well-being is a good thing?
Does science define well-being?
What I consider well-being for myself may be much different than how you define it for yourself.
I believe that the majority of the planet's population would agree with the following assertions:
Life is better than death.
Health is better than sickness.
Liberty is better than slavery.
Prosperity is better than poverty.
Education is better than ignorance.
Justice is better than injustice.Last edited by Starlight; 04-30-2017, 05:07 AM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Generally I just ignore extremist feminists. I suggest you do the same. They're the Westbro Baptist Church of progressivism.
Given this view of these sorts of extreme positions why not just preserve the term 'natural'?
Why not just agree that breast feeding is natural and natural is a good way to market it?
I think for many of these issues people (on both sides) feel like admitting the other side has a solid point somehow diminishes their side.
I don't think a member of the LGBTQ community asserting that breast feeding is the best and is natural should do anything to diminish their cause.
Side with the science, tell the snowflake to grow up, and move on.
I don't know why there is so much hesitancy to do that.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostSure, and there's plenty of reason to encourage it as a result. I am unaware of any medical organisation who discourages breast feeding, and the writers of the article cited in the OP would also encourage it I assume.
Sure, and 'natural' birth is better than cesarean for similar reasons, because exposure to germs in the birth canal kickstarts the baby's immune system.
Nobody's arguing that. The point is that it's dangerous to encourage people to think of the word 'natural' as good because it indirectly promotes all sorts of kooky alternative medicines which masquerade as 'natural'.
besides THAT is not what this study is saying. It is saying:
===
Coupling nature with motherhood… can inadvertently support biologically deterministic arguments about the roles of men and women in the family (for example, that women should be the primary caretaker,” the study says.
The study notes that in recent years, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the World Health Organization, and several state departments of health have all promoted breastfeeding over bottle-feeding, using the term “natural.”
“Referencing the ‘natural’ in breastfeeding promotion… may inadvertently endorse a set of values about family life and gender roles, which would be ethically inappropriate,” the study says.
===
they are upset because it reinforces gender roles.
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I can understand using rational thought and science as the benchmark for our behavior.
Living in a society that worships that idol is tolerable.
However, as someone accustomed to that lifestyle I find the ease with which that standard is discarded in the presence of a few tears to be very, very alarming.
Maybe YEC adherents needed to cry more.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe same can be said about breast feeding especially when the baby starts getting teeth.
Among my wife's friends, however, breast pumping was regraded as something to be avoided unless it was absolutely necessary, such as when the child couldn't latch-on to the mother's breast for whatever reason.
At any rate, if the only reason someone is against breastfeeding is because they're jealous of the bond that forms between the mother and child then they need to get over themselves.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
Given this view of these sorts of extreme positions why not just preserve the term 'natural'?
Why not just agree that breast feeding is natural and natural is a good way to market it?
I think for many of these issues people (on both sides) feel like admitting the other side has a solid point somehow diminishes their side.
I don't think a member of the LGBTQ community asserting that breast feeding is the best and is natural should do anything to diminish their cause.
Side with the science, tell the snowflake to grow up, and move on.
I don't know why there is so much hesitancy to do that.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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