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Thread: God a Trinity.

  1. #111
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedrick View Post
    In the orthodox tradition, the Logos is eternal, but he become incarnate, i.e. became united with a human nature in 3 BC (or so). It is the Logos that is eternal, not the human nature. However the Logos is still in eternity the obedient Son, so some aspects of the incarnate Christ are reflected in the logos in eternity. Not actual human nature, though, since that wasn't adopted until 3 BC.

    Is this what the NT authors actually meant by calling Christ preexistent? John 1 comes closest. The problem is that Jewish tradition speaks of divine attributes as if they were entities, so it's hard to know just how literally to take the NT language. I think it's fair to say, however, that although Jesus wasn't born until 3 BC, the fact that he shows us God tells us something about God. The Muslim God wouldn't die for us, even in incarnate form. At the very least preexistence says that God was, in some sense, always "incarnatable." There was something about him that made it appropriate for him to appear through a human and die. Personally I find three hypostases with one ousia a less than obvious way to describe this, but I do think Jesus as Word made flesh, and the various ideas about preexistence, implies a more complex concept of God than a pure transcendent idea like the Muslim one. Hence I normally identify myself as a Trinitarian, although I take the traditional philosophical language as one attempt to explain the implications of the incarnation on the nature of God, and don't see it as the ideal or final explanation.

    [I speak of "human nature" and "the human" rather than simply calling Jesus a man because classical Christology rejects the idea that Jesus is a human person. While I understand the things that lead to this, I think it's a problem with classical Christology that one can't refer to Jesus as a man.]
    Interesting! Thank you.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  2. #112
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedrick View Post
    <snip>
    [I speak of "human nature" and "the human" rather than simply calling Jesus a man because classical Christology rejects the idea that Jesus is a human person. While I understand the things that lead to this, I think it's a problem with classical Christology that one can't refer to Jesus as a man.]
    I believe you are mistaken on that.
    1 Timothy 2:5,
    . . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; . . .
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  3. #113
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedrick View Post
    [I speak of "human nature" and "the human" rather than simply calling Jesus a man because classical Christology rejects the idea that Jesus is a human person. While I understand the things that lead to this, I think it's a problem with classical Christology that one can't refer to Jesus as a man.]
    I don't know where you've read up on classical Christology, but this is the first time I've ever seen someone claim that classical (orthodox) Christology rejects the idea that Jesus is a human person, or that He can't be referred to as a man.

  4. Amen Marta amen'd this post.

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