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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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God a Trinity.

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  • God a Trinity.

    Uncaused Existence - YHWH - God the Father - Exodus 3:14, 15; Proverbs 21:30; Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 4:6; Acts 17:28.

    Uncaused Cause - YHWH - the Logos - the Son of God - Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 45:18; John 1:1-3, 10; Colossians 1:16-18; Ephesians 3:9; Hebrews 1:2.

    Uncaused Essence - YHWH - The Holy Spirit - Isaiah 61:1;John 4:24; John 14:16; John 16:7-11,13-14; ; 1 Corinthians 12:3; Romans 8:9.
    Last edited by 37818; 04-29-2017, 08:14 PM.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

  • #2
    Making up pseudo-philosophical religious gibberish... I call that "theologizing".
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Uncaused Existence - YHWH - God the Father - Exodus 3:14, 15; Proverbs 21:30; Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 4:6; Acts 17:28.

      Uncaused Cause - YHWH - the Logos - the Son of God - Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 45:18; John 1:1-3, 10; Colossians 1:16-18; Ephesians 3:9; Hebrews 1:2.

      Uncaused Essence - YHWH - The Holy Spirit - Isaiah 61:1;John 4:24; John 14:16; John 16:7-11,13-14; ; 1 Corinthians 12:3; Romans 8:9.
      The Old Testament references absolutely do not refer to the Son of God nor the Holy Spirit. This represents total later interpretation to justify the Roman Theology of Tritheism.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Making up pseudo-philosophical religious gibberish... I call that "theologizing".
        God's identity is the uncaused Existence. God's Hebrew Name has the meaning in the third person "who Is" or "self Existent." There is only One YHWH not three. God is infinite and omnipresent. But walking in the garden is being finite and temporal BTW (Genesis 3:8).

        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        The Old Testament references absolutely do not refer to the Son of God nor the Holy Spirit. This represents total later interpretation to justify the Roman Theology of Tritheism.
        And it is not tritheism. Saying it is does not make it so. There is only One YHWH.

        Proverbs 30:4,
        Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          God's identity is the uncaused Existence. God's Hebrew Name has the meaning in the third person "who Is" or "self Existent." There is only One YHWH not three. God is infinite and omnipresent. But walking in the garden is being finite and temporal BTW (Genesis 3:8).

          And it is not tritheism. Saying it is does not make it so. There is only One YHWH.

          Proverbs 30:4,
          Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?
          Claiming it is Monotheism does not reflect the reality of the Hellenist/Roman Trinity which is Tritheism.

          Again . . .

          The Old Testament references absolutely do not refer to the Son of God nor the Holy Spirit. This represents total later interpretation to justify the Roman Theology of Tritheism.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            The Old Testament references absolutely do not refer to the Son of God nor the Holy Spirit. This represents total later interpretation to justify the Roman Theology of Tritheism.
            No it doesn't. It represents a later interpretation to justify the New Testament theology of Jesus and the Holy Spirit as distinct Persons within the triune Godhood.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              Claiming it is Monotheism does not reflect the reality of the Hellenist/Roman Trinity which is Tritheism.

              Again . . .

              The Old Testament references absolutely do not refer to the Son of God nor the Holy Spirit. This represents total later interpretation to justify the Roman Theology of Tritheism.
              You can believe that if you want to. That is not what I or other Christians believe. Claiming what is not believed is what is being believed when it is not, is not honest.

              As for the OT. God is YHWH and does not have parts. And is also taught in the NT.
              Deuteronomy 6:4,
              Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: . . .

              Mark 12:29,
              . . . Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: . . .
              Last edited by 37818; 04-29-2017, 11:27 PM.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                No it doesn't. It represents a later interpretation to justify the New Testament theology of Jesus and the Holy Spirit as distinct Persons within the triune Godhood.
                Or, more accurately, "it represents a later rationalisation to justify the incoherent New Testament dogma of Jesus and the Holy Spirit as distinct Persons within the triune Godhood".
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Or, more accurately, "it represents a later rationalisation to justify the incoherent New Testament dogma of Jesus and the Holy Spirit as distinct Persons within the triune Godhood".
                  There's a big difference between incoherence and incomprehensibility. I'll readily admit that the Trinity is incomprehensible. No one has yet to show that's it's incoherent, though.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    Or, more accurately, "it represents a later rationalisation to justify the incoherent New Testament dogma of Jesus and the Holy Spirit as distinct Persons within the triune Godhood".
                    The Trinity is the explanation. God is the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 4:6).The Son of God is another Person who fully and solely represents God (John 1:18; John 14:6; John 12:41; Isaiah 6:5). God is invisible (Colossians 1:15-18).
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                      There's a big difference between incoherence and incomprehensibility. I'll readily admit that the Trinity is incomprehensible. No one has yet to show that's it's incoherent, though.
                      Oh, but I am arguing that it is both necessary and corresponds with how God has reveled Himself. God is YHWH. Uncaused existence. Uncaused Cause is of two natures. Uncaused being eternal, and a cause which is finite and temporal being a cause. And God being Spirit (John 4:24) The third entity being the Holy Spirit who makes them being the One substance. YHWH is infinite and omnipresent. Walking in the garden is a finite and temporal act (Genesis 3:8; John 1:18).
                      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        Oh, but I am arguing that it is both necessary and corresponds with how God has reveled Himself. God is YHWH. Uncaused existence. Uncaused Cause is of two natures. Uncaused being eternal, and a cause which is finite and temporal being a cause. And God being Spirit (John 4:24) The third entity being the Holy Spirit who makes them being the One substance. YHWH is infinite and omnipresent. Walking in the garden is a finite and temporal act (Genesis 3:8; John 1:18).
                        this is why you are "nontraditional" -- you have no clue what a nature is. a cause is not a nature. eternal is not a nature. it is an attribute of a nature.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          You can believe that if you want to. That is not what I or other Christians believe. Claiming what is not believed is what is being believed when it is not, is not honest.

                          As for the OT. God is YHWH and does not have parts. And is also taught in the NT.
                          Deuteronomy 6:4,
                          Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: . . .

                          Mark 12:29,
                          . . . Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: . . .
                          These references support Monotheism, and not the Trinity, which the Jews justifiably reject.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            No it doesn't. It represents a later interpretation to justify the New Testament theology of Jesus and the Holy Spirit as distinct Persons within the triune Godhood.
                            You just reworded my view of the source of the Trinitarian belief.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              this is why you are "nontraditional" -- you have no clue what a nature is. a cause is not a nature. eternal is not a nature. it is an attribute of a nature.
                              OK. So are you arguing being temporal and visible are also attributes of the divine nature?

                              When the Logos εγενετο became flesh that was a change (John 1:14).

                              And the Logos was the only one who did it, "All things were made [εγενετο] by him; and without him was not any thing made [εγενετο] that was made [γεγονεν]." (John 1;3)

                              The Logos is the visible of the invisible (John 1:18; Colossians 1:15). The Logos was also someone else than God (John 1:2).
                              Last edited by 37818; 04-30-2017, 07:32 AM.
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment

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