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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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God a Trinity.

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  • #16
    I believe the Logos and the holy spirit are one and the same. The Omnipresent spirit off the Almighty. I am unorthodox and untraditional. I dont believe that God has a gender. Being called Father was the semites way of getting away from the common practice of worshipping the divine Mother.In Native spirituality the sky is Father and the earth is Mother. These are not the cause in my belief. The Earth is a gift from the Almighty and thus sacred. I believe in an invisible realm her on Earth that we can not see ,
    Eden is still here. In the Gnostic gospel of Thomas Chrirst says that the kingdom of God is spread out across the whole world and the people can not see it. I believe the Earth is a gift to cherish. Some are so certain of a future paradise elswere after death, that they will remain blind to the idea that earth(Eden) is a paradise in a cosmic desert(milkey way). Do those that forsake this gift deserve a better home?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
      I believe the Logos and the holy spirit are one and the same. The Omnipresent spirit off the Almighty. I am unorthodox and untraditional. I dont believe that God has a gender. Being called Father was the semites way of getting away from the common practice of worshipping the divine Mother.In Native spirituality the sky is Father and the earth is Mother. These are not the cause in my belief. The Earth is a gift from the Almighty and thus sacred. I believe in an invisible realm her on Earth that we can not see ,
      Eden is still here. In the Gnostic gospel of Thomas Chrirst says that the kingdom of God is spread out across the whole world and the people can not see it. I believe the Earth is a gift to cherish. Some are so certain of a future paradise elswere after death, that they will remain blind to the idea that earth(Eden) is a paradise in a cosmic desert(milkey way). Do those that forsake this gift deserve a better home?
      I ment to say earth is an oasis in a cosmic desert. definately not a paradise in many aspects.We have suffering,pain,old age, death. How does one appreciate heaven without experiencing some hell? I think those who have experienced hate have a better appreciation for love and kindness. I believe in Christ, yet my understanding is way out there to many. thats O.K. my questioning and doubts have strengthened my belief in the Almighty. I claim Bahaii for many reasons. 1 is its understanding that true science and true religion are compatable because they come from the same source.I apologize to my Bahaii brethren if my understanding misses the mark? I realize a lot of my personal beliefes are not traditional Bahaii so please dont judge them by my lack of understanding.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
        I believe the Logos and the holy spirit are one and the same. The Omnipresent spirit off the Almighty. I am unorthodox and untraditional. I dont believe that God has a gender. Being called Father was the semites way of getting away from the common practice of worshipping the divine Mother.In Native spirituality the sky is Father and the earth is Mother. These are not the cause in my belief. The Earth is a gift from the Almighty and thus sacred. I believe in an invisible realm her on Earth that we can not see ,
        Eden is still here. In the Gnostic gospel of Thomas Chrirst says that the kingdom of God is spread out across the whole world and the people can not see it. I believe the Earth is a gift to cherish. Some are so certain of a future paradise elswere after death, that they will remain blind to the idea that earth(Eden) is a paradise in a cosmic desert(milkey way). Do those that forsake this gift deserve a better home?
        Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
        I ment to say earth is an oasis in a cosmic desert. definately not a paradise in many aspects.We have suffering,pain,old age, death. How does one appreciate heaven without experiencing some hell? I think those who have experienced hate have a better appreciation for love and kindness. I believe in Christ, yet my understanding is way out there to many. thats O.K. my questioning and doubts have strengthened my belief in the Almighty. I claim Bahaii for many reasons. 1 is its understanding that true science and true religion are compatable because they come from the same source.I apologize to my Bahaii brethren if my understanding misses the mark? I realize a lot of my personal beliefes are not traditional Bahaii so please dont judge them by my lack of understanding.
        Well are you arguing that the Logos was both omnipresent and finite at the same time (John 1:18; Genesis 3:8)? Would not that indicate one being with opposite attributes?
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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        • #19
          Unsure of what you mean by opposite attributes? I believe that God is the one constant. everything that is not God came from God.God is spirit and alway existed. when Gods spirit entered matter the universe was created. In the material universe there is duality. Gods highest nature is beyond the duality of our physical universe. Its lower nature is closest to us.I am trying to explain my belief in words that are reaching. Its as if Gods spiritual vibration is slowed down in order to be experienced at the human level.When perceived from the human level God has masculine and feminine aspects. I believe God has no gender.Do we ask what gender a mountain is? or the sun,the ocean? although I like to think of the ocean as feminine. In Genesis 1 v20 it says something like let the waters bring forth life. To me this hints at evolution. To others that would be seen as blasphemy. when you ask if I am arguing that the Logos is omnipresent and finite? I see the Logos as the Holy Spirit. This spirit is eternal. All matter is finite in the sense that it always changes form and physical bodies die and decay. I respect your christian belief although my beliefs are rather different. I believe the Christ existed. He claimed I am the Son of God and the Son of man. I do not believe that he claimed to be the only begotten Son. To me What you call the Father is the source,Almighty,Eternal one,Elohim. The Holy spirit is the Logos, Word, Holy Ghost,Gods omnipresent spirit. To me the Son of God is humanity itself. I love the teachings of the Messiah. One reason I do not claim christianity is because I am very sceptical about the belief that God ever required blood sacrifices. I tend to believe that early Semite priests(rabbis) created the blood sacrifices as a way to control the masses. I think the slaughter of lambs,bullocks, doves as sacrifices were an abomination and primitive belief created for the gullible. I think there is a hidden message when Christ overthrows the tables at the temple.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
            Unsure of what you mean by opposite attributes? I believe that God is the one constant. everything that is not God came from God.God is spirit and alway existed. when Gods spirit entered matter the universe was created. In the material universe there is duality. Gods highest nature is beyond the duality of our physical universe. Its lower nature is closest to us.I am trying to explain my belief in words that are reaching. Its as if Gods spiritual vibration is slowed down in order to be experienced at the human level.When perceived from the human level God has masculine and feminine aspects. I believe God has no gender.Do we ask what gender a mountain is? or the sun,the ocean? although I like to think of the ocean as feminine. In Genesis 1 v20 it says something like let the waters bring forth life. To me this hints at evolution. To others that would be seen as blasphemy. when you ask if I am arguing that the Logos is omnipresent and finite? I see the Logos as the Holy Spirit. This spirit is eternal. All matter is finite in the sense that it always changes form and physical bodies die and decay. I respect your christian belief although my beliefs are rather different. I believe the Christ existed. He claimed I am the Son of God and the Son of man. I do not believe that he claimed to be the only begotten Son. To me What you call the Father is the source,Almighty,Eternal one,Elohim. The Holy spirit is the Logos, Word, Holy Ghost,Gods omnipresent spirit. To me the Son of God is humanity itself. I love the teachings of the Messiah. One reason I do not claim christianity is because I am very sceptical about the belief that God ever required blood sacrifices. I tend to believe that early Semite priests(rabbis) created the blood sacrifices as a way to control the masses. I think the slaughter of lambs,bullocks, doves as sacrifices were an abomination and primitive belief created for the gullible. I think there is a hidden message when Christ overthrows the tables at the temple.
            Opposites would be, Omnipresent (infinite) and finite (local). Eternal and temporal. Visible and invisible. And the like.
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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            • #21
              when they say no one has seen God I believe this means no one in a physical body,living breathing human can see Gods highest divine light and live because of the dross of the world. I do not believe that Jesus is the creator as some people seam to believe. To say Jesus is God is like saying a bucket of water taken from the ocean is the ocean.The Christ body could hold the spirit of God but only as much as a bucket could hold of the ocean of divine light that is God.

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              • #22
                When you ask if I mean God is omnipresent(infinite) and finite(local),Eternal and temporal.Visible and invisible. I am trying to take this in.God is not temporal but is local in the fact that Gods spirit is here now. while in the material world were there is suffering it is hard to believe we are always in the presence of God.The suffering in this world is temporary. Christs Body was temporal,his soul is Eternal.He was a vessel for The holy spirit,divine light. I believe is why He could say he who has seen me has seen God. Yet no one has seen God and lived. A divine dichotomy. He also said what I do is not of me but of He who sent me.This verse is used by Muslims to denounce christians claim of the divinity of Jesus.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
                  Christs Body was temporal,his soul is Eternal.He was a vessel for The holy spirit,divine light. I believe is why He could say he who has seen me has seen God.
                  So Christ was divine then, his eternal soul?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    OK. So are you arguing being temporal and visible are also attributes of the divine nature?

                    When the Logos εγενετο became flesh that was a change (John 1:14).

                    And the Logos was the only one who did it, "All things were made [εγενετο] by him; and without him was not any thing made [εγενετο] that was made [γεγονεν]." (John 1;3)

                    The Logos is the visible of the invisible (John 1:18; Colossians 1:15). The Logos was also someone else than God (John 1:2).
                    sigh.

                    Being "visible" and "temporal" were attributes of Jesus' human nature, not his divine nature.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      sigh.

                      Being "visible" and "temporal" were attributes of Jesus' human nature, not his divine nature.
                      Yes and also "visible" and "temporal" as the preincarnate theophanies (John 1:18; John 12:41 - Isaiah 6:5; etc).
                      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        Yes and also "visible" and "temporal" as the preincarnate theophanies (John 1:18; John 12:41 - Isaiah 6:5; etc).
                        Are you saying God can't show himself or interact in time? God can do anything he wants to. That doesn't make it part of his nature. It is just something he did.

                        Nature is the essential substance of some being. Our nature is "human" - God's nature is "divine" as humans we have various attributes, some essential, some not. As God, he has some essential and non-essential attributes. Some he shares with us, others not.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Are you saying God can't show himself or interact in time? God can do anything he wants to. That doesn't make it part of his nature. It is just something he did.

                          Nature is the essential substance of some being. Our nature is "human" - God's nature is "divine" as humans we have various attributes, some essential, some not. As God, he has some essential and non-essential attributes. Some he shares with us, others not.
                          Are you denying that all the OT theophanies are the preincarnate Christ (John 1:18)?
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            Are you denying that all the OT theophanies are the preincarnate Christ (John 1:18)?
                            What are you trying to answer with this. I fail to see how this responds to Sparko's post.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              So Christ was divine then, his eternal soul?
                              I would agree with this statement. Jesus was spiritually awake. A bucket of ocean water is still part of the ocean. I do not take everything from the bible in the literal sense, I do believe Yeshua(Jesus) was and is the Messiah. I am sceptical about pretty much all the religious books yet believe there is truth within the bible. I am not sceptical about the existence of God. To me the reality of God is a real as the air we breath. I am also a liberal and believe in religious freedom. I use to be pentacostol. At one time I was afraid to question the beliefs of my upbringing. I dont believe there is only one understanding that takes us home to God when we leave this world. The Christ said one must be born again of the spirit. The difference in my faith and traditional faiths is the definition of what born again is. I have less fear in my life than I once had. I am in awe of God. The old testament says to fear God.sometimes I am scared of Gods awesome power,but I believe the Almighty is compassionate and merciful.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                                There's a big difference between incoherence and incomprehensibility. I'll readily admit that the Trinity is incomprehensible. No one has yet to show that's it's incoherent, though.
                                The Trinity is both incoherent and incomprehensible just as its related doctrine of the Hypostatic Union of Jesus is incoherent and incomprehensible. With the latter it is a logical contradiction that Jesus was simultaneously fully God and fully man. Similarly, God cannot be simultaneously one god but three full persons within the godhead.

                                The definitive dogma of the Trinity is spelt out in the Athanasian Creed, but it only works because it contradicts itself every second line.

                                https://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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