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Thread: God a Trinity.

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    when they say no one has seen God I believe this means no one in a physical body,living breathing human can see Gods highest divine light and live because of the dross of the world. I do not believe that Jesus is the creator as some people seam to believe. To say Jesus is God is like saying a bucket of water taken from the ocean is the ocean.The Christ body could hold the spirit of God but only as much as a bucket could hold of the ocean of divine light that is God.

  2. #22
    tWebber
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    When you ask if I mean God is omnipresent(infinite) and finite(local),Eternal and temporal.Visible and invisible. I am trying to take this in.God is not temporal but is local in the fact that Gods spirit is here now. while in the material world were there is suffering it is hard to believe we are always in the presence of God.The suffering in this world is temporary. Christs Body was temporal,his soul is Eternal.He was a vessel for The holy spirit,divine light. I believe is why He could say he who has seen me has seen God. Yet no one has seen God and lived. A divine dichotomy. He also said what I do is not of me but of He who sent me.This verse is used by Muslims to denounce christians claim of the divinity of Jesus.

  3. #23
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
    Christs Body was temporal,his soul is Eternal.He was a vessel for The holy spirit,divine light. I believe is why He could say he who has seen me has seen God.
    So Christ was divine then, his eternal soul?
    “The only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is Hell.” C.S. Lewis

  4. #24
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    OK. So are you arguing being temporal and visible are also attributes of the divine nature?

    When the Logos εγενετο became flesh that was a change (John 1:14).

    And the Logos was the only one who did it, "All things were made [εγενετο] by him; and without him was not any thing made [εγενετο] that was made [γεγονεν]." (John 1;3)

    The Logos is the visible of the invisible (John 1:18; Colossians 1:15). The Logos was also someone else than God (John 1:2).
    sigh.

    Being "visible" and "temporal" were attributes of Jesus' human nature, not his divine nature.

  5. #25
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    sigh.

    Being "visible" and "temporal" were attributes of Jesus' human nature, not his divine nature.
    Yes and also "visible" and "temporal" as the preincarnate theophanies (John 1:18; John 12:41 - Isaiah 6:5; etc).
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  6. #26
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Yes and also "visible" and "temporal" as the preincarnate theophanies (John 1:18; John 12:41 - Isaiah 6:5; etc).
    Are you saying God can't show himself or interact in time? God can do anything he wants to. That doesn't make it part of his nature. It is just something he did.

    Nature is the essential substance of some being. Our nature is "human" - God's nature is "divine" as humans we have various attributes, some essential, some not. As God, he has some essential and non-essential attributes. Some he shares with us, others not.

  7. #27
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Are you saying God can't show himself or interact in time? God can do anything he wants to. That doesn't make it part of his nature. It is just something he did.

    Nature is the essential substance of some being. Our nature is "human" - God's nature is "divine" as humans we have various attributes, some essential, some not. As God, he has some essential and non-essential attributes. Some he shares with us, others not.
    Are you denying that all the OT theophanies are the preincarnate Christ (John 1:18)?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  8. #28
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Are you denying that all the OT theophanies are the preincarnate Christ (John 1:18)?
    What are you trying to answer with this. I fail to see how this responds to Sparko's post.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  9. #29
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    So Christ was divine then, his eternal soul?
    I would agree with this statement. Jesus was spiritually awake. A bucket of ocean water is still part of the ocean. I do not take everything from the bible in the literal sense, I do believe Yeshua(Jesus) was and is the Messiah. I am sceptical about pretty much all the religious books yet believe there is truth within the bible. I am not sceptical about the existence of God. To me the reality of God is a real as the air we breath. I am also a liberal and believe in religious freedom. I use to be pentacostol. At one time I was afraid to question the beliefs of my upbringing. I dont believe there is only one understanding that takes us home to God when we leave this world. The Christ said one must be born again of the spirit. The difference in my faith and traditional faiths is the definition of what born again is. I have less fear in my life than I once had. I am in awe of God. The old testament says to fear God.sometimes I am scared of Gods awesome power,but I believe the Almighty is compassionate and merciful.

  10. #30
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    There's a big difference between incoherence and incomprehensibility. I'll readily admit that the Trinity is incomprehensible. No one has yet to show that's it's incoherent, though.
    The Trinity is both incoherent and incomprehensible just as its related doctrine of the Hypostatic Union of Jesus is incoherent and incomprehensible. With the latter it is a logical contradiction that Jesus was simultaneously fully God and fully man. Similarly, God cannot be simultaneously one god but three full persons within the godhead.

    The definitive dogma of the Trinity is spelt out in the Athanasian Creed, but it only works because it contradicts itself every second line.

    https://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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