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Complaining/grumbling, and the destroying angel

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  • Complaining/grumbling, and the destroying angel

    I am not sure what to make of 1 Corinthians 10:10. I'm going to bold it and include the surrounding verses for context (this is from the NIV):

    These things took place as examples to keep us from craving evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written: “The people sat down to eat and to drink, and got up to revel in idolatry.”a We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. We should not test Christ,b as some of them did, and were killed by snakes. And do not complain, as some of them did, and were killed by the destroying angel.

    1Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

    What exactly is meant by "complain" here? Clearly there is a place for lament (after all, there is the book of Lamentations), so something more specific seems in mind here.

    (I am also curious about what is meant by "test Christ" in the previous verse as it seems unclear how this would have happened in the cited Old Testament context.)
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    I would assume Paul's definition of "complain" there would be something like the Israelites did in the wilderness before they crossed the Jordan into Canaan (in Exodus).
    3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures --1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (borrowed with gratitude from 37818's sig)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I am not sure what to make of 1 Corinthians 10:10. I'm going to bold it and include the surrounding verses for context (this is from the NIV):

      These things took place as examples to keep us from craving evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written: “The people sat down to eat and to drink, and got up to revel in idolatry.”a We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. We should not test Christ,b as some of them did, and were killed by snakes. And do not complain, as some of them did, and were killed by the destroying angel.

      1Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

      What exactly is meant by "complain" here? Clearly there is a place for lament (after all, there is the book of Lamentations), so something more specific seems in mind here.
      I believe he's refering to Num. 11 generally, where the people complained about the food God provided them.
      (I am also curious about what is meant by "test Christ" in the previous verse as it seems unclear how this would have happened in the cited Old Testament context.)
      Well, there are a couple possibilities here. There is a textual variant which reads "test the Lord"; in that case the meaning is clear. Alternatively, since "Christ" simply means "anointed one", Paul could be refering to Moses. Thirdly, Paul could be equating (Jesus) Christ with God.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #4
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        I am not sure what to make of 1 Corinthians 10:10. I'm going to bold it and include the surrounding verses for context (this is from the NIV):

        These things took place as examples to keep us from craving evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were. As it is written: “The people sat down to eat and to drink, and got up to revel in idolatry.”a We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. We should not test Christ,b as some of them did, and were killed by snakes. And do not complain, as some of them did, and were killed by the destroying angel.

        1Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

        What exactly is meant by "complain" here? Clearly there is a place for lament (after all, there is the book of Lamentations), so something more specific seems in mind here.

        (I am also curious about what is meant by "test Christ" in the previous verse as it seems unclear how this would have happened in the cited Old Testament context.)

        Um, aren't all of those references to the Exodus? The Israelites, who really should have known better, managed to test God's patience past the breaking point multiple times - seems like Paul is recounting those instances.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

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        • #5
          I think it is referring to the complaining about the manna.

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          • #6
            It is not smart to complain to the point that God Himself goes to lethal measures to stop it. They could have said "Could we please have food? We're starving." instead of "You took us into the desert to die! Why didn't we stay in Egypt! We a food there! Waaah!". It also doesn't help to complain about the monotony of your meals. Be grateful you aren't starving to death. Ask politely, don't demand. Why did they think it was okay to act so horrible?
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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            • #7
              If you've ever been in any sort of position of authority where you lacked the ability to discipline your subordinate for complaining, and yet the subordinate just keeps on whining in an excessive manner over a lengthy period of time, you'll be able to understand why this sin can be fairly serious. And here the complaining was worse than just the complaining by one annoying person, because complaining within a group can weaken the morale of others within the population (and ultimately could have lead to the murder of Moses). Moses generally wasn't allowed to punish the people for mere whining. Instead, it was God's job to do so.

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              • #8
                Just to be clear, I recognized this as a reference to the Israelites in the desert. I wasn't asking about what it referred to. I'm interested in how we apply this scripture today.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                • #9
                  Arguably it could just refer to excessive complaining against God, both in quality and in quantity. In particular, though, the Israelites kept saying that they wished they were in Egypt instead of God's kingdom, which is a pretty big insult. They also kept unjustifiably trying to stir up dissent against Moses, God's leader.

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                  • #10
                    So, don't complain that Christians can't have any "fun"? Even though that's an asinine claim. There's plenty of things a Christian can do for enjoyment/ Helping people can be enjoyable. Except that may be a case of apples and oranges. Hm....
                    Maybe don't regret that you can't take unethical measures to scale the corporate ladder to success? Except why would I want to do that???
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      So, don't complain that Christians can't have any "fun"? Even though that's an asinine claim.
                      It's actually not that uncommon in church history.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        Just to be clear, I recognized this as a reference to the Israelites in the desert. I wasn't asking about what it referred to. I'm interested in how we apply this scripture today.
                        We should kill people who complain too much?


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Just to be clear, I recognized this as a reference to the Israelites in the desert. I wasn't asking about what it referred to. I'm interested in how we apply this scripture today.
                          I think that would be fairly obvious. Don't complain about what God has given you (directly or indirectly) because you want something better. Instead, be thankful for what you do have.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            I think that would be fairly obvious. Don't complain about what God has given you (directly or indirectly) because you want something better. Instead, be thankful for what you do have.
                            Don't spit on God's blessings.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              Just to be clear, I recognized this as a reference to the Israelites in the desert. I wasn't asking about what it referred to. I'm interested in how we apply this scripture today.
                              You've never been on a church council, have you?
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

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