$70 million sanctuary - excessive or good investment?

[Jin-roh]

Church planting is a different animal from church building.

The difference is almost only semantic to me, especially since (as is evidenced by the original question in this thread) a Church plant often eventually implies a building.

We need more planting - the establishment of new congregations - and less building of lovely edifices with empty pews.

Who has ever advocated for literally constructing an empty church in this thread?

[Teallaura]

The difference is almost only semantic to me, especially since (as is evidenced by the original question in this thread) a Church plant often eventually implies a building.

Sure, but existing ones - even those originally secular in purpose will serve.

Who has ever advocated for literally constructing an empty church in this thread?

No one - merely an observation of existing conditions.

[Jin-roh]

I'm so hopelessly confused now.

[Teallaura]

Planting churches refers to building the church in the sense of the congregation - the Body of Christ.

Building churches refers to erecting a building for use by the congregation - the Body of Christ.

Yes, we CAN make that more confusing.

[Jin-roh]

I still don't see how planting churches is any less redundant than building another church building... but I guess that's why I'm not an Evangelical anymore.

[Teallaura]

Depends - there's a big difference between a Spiritually growing church and a stagnant one. In some cases, building a new congregation accomplishes more than trying to change a stagnant one.

[Jin-roh]

Depends - there's a big difference between a Spiritually growing church and a stagnant one. In some cases, building a new congregation accomplishes more than trying to change a stagnant one.

What if that's a self-fulfilling prophecy?

[Teallaura]

What if that's a self-fulfilling prophecy?

That's always a risk.

Personally, I'm of the both/and school - new congregations can reach some an established congregation would never get - and vice versa

[Thoughtful Monk]

Good point, there are plenty of spectacular cathedrals in Europe and not a whole lot of active Christianity.

I've been involved with a couple churches with a building and over 50 years history as a church. In both cases, the congregation was more interested in holding on to the building than serving Christ. In the second case, I think there was a good possibility if they had let the building go, they could have prospered as servants of God.

[tabibito]

I'm so hopelessly confused now.

You're on Tweb: it's mandatory.

[Teallaura]

You're on Tweb: it's mandatory.

My job is done!

[Rushing Jaws]

Good point, there are plenty of spectacular cathedrals in Europe and not a whole lot of active Christianity.

When they were built, OTOH....

[Rushing Jaws]

Entering the presence of Innocent II., before whom a large sum of money was spread out, the Pope observed, “You see, the Church is no longer in that age in which she said, ‘Silver and gold have I none.’”—“True, holy father,” replied Aquinas; “neither can she any longer say to the lame, ‘Rise up and walk.’”

I've heard that story before - a source would be very welcome. Innocent II died in 1143 - Innocent IV (1243-54) would have to be the one, because he is the only Pope of that name to have lived during St Thomas' lifetime.

[Rushing Jaws]

It is still very beautiful even after over 500 years of Muslim vandalism and neglect

[Rushing Jaws]

Bacon, beer, and liturgy so sublime you may transcended this mortal realm. Christianity wins!

The Orthodox Liturgy is like Heaven on earth.