Where, or when, did the war in heaven occured, or will occur

[FarEastBird]

Where, or when, did the war in heaven occured, or will occur, in the OLD heaven? or in the NEW heaven?

Thanks,
FEB

[seanD]

Where, or when, did the war in heaven occured, or will occur, in the OLD heaven? or in the NEW heaven?

Thanks,
FEB

From the information I can gather from scripture, a war occurred before the appearance of Christ as a result of the fall of Satan (though unclear exactly when this happened), and another war will occur again before the return of Christ. The second war will most likely occur in heaven first. The causalities will be kicked out of heaven to earth. And then the final earthly war (Armageddon) will occur at the return of Christ.

[eschaton]

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

I think it is interesting that Satan is first cast to Earth, (Rev 9:1, 12:9, 20:2), and finally the lake of fire (Rev 20:10, Mat 25:41, 46).

In the OT we see a similar fate for the covering cherub (Eze 28:13-17) and Lucifer (Isa 14:12-15). Satan was cursed in the Garden of Eden (Gen 3:14-15).

The battle goes on daily in the lives of men ( 1 Pe 5:8, 2Ti 4:17; Rev 12:12). In the Gospel Christ saw Satan cast to Earth (Luke 10:18), and Peter tells us the angels that sinned are reserved for judgment (2 Pet 2:4). It is Christ who has defeated Satan with the Cross (Col 1:13, 2:15) for those that accept (1 Cor 10:13, Eph 6:11-18).

[eschaton]

BTW, I don't necessarily disagree with Sean, because the battle is ongoing.

[FarEastBird]

From the information I can gather from scripture, a war occurred before the appearance of Christ as a result of the fall of Satan (though unclear exactly when this happened), and another war will occur again before the return of Christ. The second war will most likely occur in heaven first. The causalities will be kicked out of heaven to earth. And then the final earthly war (Armageddon) will occur at the return of Christ.

Any specific verse/s where you drew your ideas?

Are you saying there is really a literal heaven? or at least a place other than here on earth?

Thanks,
FEB

[seanD]

Any specific verse/s where you drew your ideas?

Are you saying there is really a literal heaven? or at least a place other than here on earth?

Thanks,
FEB

Eh, don't really feel like it. It's not that important.

[FarEastBird]

Eh, don't really feel like it. It's not that important.

Are you sure about that? Why was it written if it will not be important?

FEB

[FarEastBird]

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

I think it is interesting that Satan is first cast to Earth, (Rev 9:1, 12:9, 20:2), and finally the lake of fire (Rev 20:10, Mat 25:41, 46).

In the OT we see a similar fate for the covering cherub (Eze 28:13-17) and Lucifer (Isa 14:12-15). Satan was cursed in the Garden of Eden (Gen 3:14-15).

The battle goes on daily in the lives of men ( 1 Pe 5:8, 2Ti 4:17; Rev 12:12). In the Gospel Christ saw Satan cast to Earth (Luke 10:18), and Peter tells us the angels that sinned are reserved for judgment (2 Pet 2:4). It is Christ who has defeated Satan with the Cross (Col 1:13, 2:15) for those that accept (1 Cor 10:13, Eph 6:11-18).

Thanks for the verses you brought up. What caught my eye is Ezekiel 28, of which, I believe will give us a good description of Satan, Lucifer.

Satan is not an invisible spirit being.(verse17, 19). In fact his heart fattened because of doing business in earth.(verses 4-5).

Satan is someone sitting in the “mountain of God.” The mountain of God is mount Zion, the heaven that was in Israel(verses 14, 16). So he was indeed occupying a sit in the heaven, in mount Zion.

Also interesting is of the prophesy of him, “You shall die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, said the Lord GOD(verse 10)” It seems that Satan is a Jew. With all other notes I made above, more likely Satan is a (high)priest.

How’s that sounds?

FEB

[eschaton]

Satan is circumcised? That may be more than I want to know. However, the connection between Satan and ancient Judaism is interesting in light of Rev 2:9.

[FarEastBird]

Satan is circumcised? That may be more than I want to know. However, the connection between Satan and ancient Judaism is interesting in light of Rev 2:9.

Interesting!

There is a reason why they would claim themselves as Jews; for Jews refer to the tribe of Judah, which is actually the true mount Zion of God(Ps 78:68). The high priest were of the lineage of levi. You knew what being under the law meant, they are accursed!

Peace,
FEB

[eschaton]

I always think of Romans 2:28-29 in conjunction with Rev 2:9.

[FarEastBird]

I always think of Romans 2:28-29 in conjunction with Rev 2:9.

Exactly the point.

[treeOflife]

Where, or when, did the war in heaven occured, or will occur, in the OLD heaven? or in the NEW heaven?

I think that the war occured in the garden of eden. when satan was cursed to eat the dust of the earth.

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."


you can see that after the war in heaven, satan is trying to corrupt the human race and to exterminate it with the flood (by creating nephilim hybrids), but god saved noah and his seed.

Satan is not an invisible spirit being.(verse17, 19). In fact his heart fattened because of doing business in earth.(verses 4-5).

Satan is someone sitting in the “mountain of God.” The mountain of God is mount Zion, the heaven that was in Israel(verses 14, 16). So he was indeed occupying a sit in the heaven, in mount Zion.

satan is a spirit, he's a shapeshifting invisible being.
I don't like the prophet ezekiel, for me, he's a false prophet.
but what I understand is that in isaiah or ezekiel, the prophet doesn't directly speak about satan, he speaks about a king on earth. but most king are practicing witchcrafts and are possessed by high level demons, so speaking about a king is almost always like speaking about the demons that works with the king.