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Thread: Muhammad mentioned by name in the Song of Songs?

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    Muhammad mentioned by name in the Song of Songs?

    Song of Solomon 5:16 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

    16 His mouth is sweetness.
    He is absolutely desirable.
    This is my love, and this is my friend,
    young women of Jerusalem.

    Muslims: Do you believe Muhammad's name appears in the Song of Songs?

    Thank you.

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    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

    The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

    "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".


    1.
    MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:


    Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

    "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

    The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

    If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
    Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
    fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

    However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):


    i)

    Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

    [Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]


    ii)
    Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

    iii)
    Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)


    Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

    Words in the mouth:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

    "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

    [Deuteronomy 18:18]


    iv)
    Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).

    v)
    Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
    people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."

    iv)
    Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

    2.
    It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19


    "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."


    3.
    Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:


    It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

    "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

    When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".


    4.
    prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:


    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

    "Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

    "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
    of Jerusalem."

    In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
    (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.


    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:

    Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:

    "And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "

    All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.


    1.
    John chapter 14 verse 16:
    "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

    2.
    Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

    "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
    proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

    3.
    Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:


    "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
    come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

    "Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
    Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
    Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
    Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

    Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
    that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
    Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
    Muhammad (pbuh).


    4.
    Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

    "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
    come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".

    The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
    NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The verse in the Quran that mentions this:---Surah 7, verse 156, 157

    156. "And ordain for us that which is good, in this life and in the Hereafter: for we have turned unto Thee." He said: "With My punishment I visit whom I will; but My mercy extends to all things. That (mercy) I shall ordain for those who do right, and practice regular charity, and those who believe in Our signs;-

    157. "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Personally, I am neutral when it comes to such things---since my belief in Islam as "my way" is based on other criteria....

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    Christian3, can you expand on why this Song of Songs reference might mention Muhammad?
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Christian3, can you expand on why this Song of Songs reference might mention Muhammad?
    I don't believe it does, but Muslims do. The following is from a Muslim site:

    Clips:

    Prophet Muhammad (s) is mentioned in the Bible by name many times but twice by the name of Muhammad, once in the Songs of Solomon

    5:16 His mouth [is] most sweet: yes, he [is] Muhammad. This [is] my beloved, and this [is] my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
    Lets read this verse in the original language,

    "Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

    The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

    "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".
    I'll take each of your "Muhammad in the Bible" Scriptures in separate posts.

    Let's look &:157 in context:

    Literal
    (Word by Word) Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find him written with them in the Taurat and the Injeel. He commands them to the right and forbids them from the wrong, and he makes lawful for them the pure things and makes unlawful for them the impure things and he relieves from them their burden and the fetters which were upon them. So those who believe in him and honor him, and help him and follow the light which has been sent down with him. Those (are) [they] the successful ones."

    "unlettered prophet" means Muhammad was not taught -- he did not go to school -- correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

    1.
    MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:


    Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

    "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

    The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

    If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
    Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
    fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

    However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):


    i)

    Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

    [Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]


    ii)
    Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

    iii)
    Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)


    Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

    Words in the mouth:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

    "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

    [Deuteronomy 18:18]


    iv)
    Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).

    v)
    Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
    people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."

    iv)
    Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

    2.
    It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19


    "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
    From Hebrew to English:

    1The Levitic kohanim, the entire tribe of Levi, shall have no portion or inheritance with Israel; the Lord's fire offerings and His inheritance they shall eat.

    15A prophet from among you, from your brothers, like me, the Lord, your God will set up for you;
    you shall hearken to him.

    It is clear from the context that the tribe of Levi is excluded. It is also clear from the context that the Prophet like Moses would come from the remaining tribes of Israel.

    "But the children of Benjamin would not listen to the voice of their brethren, the children of Israel." Judges 20.13

    Here "their brethren" is specifically stated to be the other tribes of Israel as distinct from the tribe of Benjamin. In Deuteronomy 18.18, therefore, "their brethren" clearly means the brethren in Israel of the tribe of Levi. Again in Numbers 8.26 the tribe of Levi is commanded to minister to "their brethren", that is, the remaining tribes of Israel. In 2 Kings 24.12 the tribe of Judah is distinguished from "their brethren", once again the remaining tribes of Israel. (Further scriptures proving the point are Judges 21.22, 2 Samuel 2.26, 2 Kings 23.9, 1 Chronicles 12.32, 2 Chronicles 28.15, Nehemiah 5.1 and others).


    In Deuteronomy 17.15 we read that Moses on one occasion said to the Israelites "One from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother". Only an Israelite could be appointed king of Israel - "one from among your brethren" - no foreigner, be he Ishmaelite, Edomite or whoever he may be, could be made King of Israel because he was not one of "their brethren", that is, a member of one of the tribes of Israel.


    This leaves Muhammad out since he did not come from the tribes of Israel.

  7. Amen Cerebrum123, Chrawnus, Pentecost amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    I don't believe it does, but Muslims do. The following is from a Muslim site:

    Clips:

    Prophet Muhammad (s) is mentioned in the Bible by name many times but twice by the name of Muhammad, once in the Songs of Solomon

    5:16 His mouth [is] most sweet: yes, he [is] Muhammad. This [is] my beloved, and this [is] my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
    Lets read this verse in the original language,

    "Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."
    wow that is really bad theology on the part of Muslims. A word that sounds like their prophet's name? His name means "desireble" or "beloved" (not sure which word is referred to but in Hebrew it is machmâd ) and he was named after the word (or at least it's arabic equivalent). That doesn't mean every time the word is used in the bible it is referring to his name! Eisogesis at it's best (reading meaning into the text)

    It would be like a girl named Hope saying that every mention of the word hope in the bible was referring to her directly.
    Last edited by Sparko; 05-04-2017 at 01:21 PM.

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    @Christian 3, siam is comparing inconsequential details to try and force a similarity to Moses and Mohammed, when the actual context points to the important parts being completely different. The "prophet like Moses" had to be of the "brethren" or "countrymen". Also had to speak with God face to face, and perform great miracles. All of these exclude Mohammed since he didn't know God face to face, and the only "miracle" many Muslims claim he had was the Koran. It's blatant cherry picking. siam is rather fond of this, as are many Muslims. They pick and choose which parts of the Koran to believe, and do so with the Bible as well.

    Let's look at the whole passage.

    Deuteronomy 18:15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your [j]countrymen, you shall listen to him. 16 This is according to all that you asked of the Lord your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, or I will die.’ 17 The Lord said to me, ‘They have [k]spoken well. 18 I will raise up a prophet from among their [l]countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, [m]that prophet shall die.’ 21 [n]You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

    Some of the earliest and most reliable Islamic sources show that Mohammed spoke a revelation from Satan that endorsed polytheism. Therefor Mohammed was a false prophet, and if the laws in Deuteronomy were in effect during his life he would have been executed for this. There is even evidence in the Koran that Mohammed gave "revelations" from Satan!

    Koran Surah 22:52 Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

    In order to cover this up "Allah" is now saying that ALL prophets were fooled by Satan in this way. Not only that, but the main argument for the Koran is that no one can bring anything as eloquent as it, yet Satan was able to fool everyone into believing that his "revelation" was genuine. Sounds like the "challenge" has been met.

    Koran Surah 2:23 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

    An example of a full Surah near the end of the Koran.

    112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4 And there is none like unto Him.

    Yeah, nobody could ever write something like that, it must be from God!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    wow that is really bad theology on the part of Muslims. A word that sounds like their prophet's name? His name means "desireble" or "beloved" (not sure which word is referred to but in Hebrew it is machmâd ) and he was named after the word (or at least it's arabic equivalent). That doesn't mean every time the word is used in the bible it is referring to his name! Eisogesis at it's best (reading meaning into the text)

    It would be like a girl named Hope saying that every mention of the word hope in the bible was referring to her directly.
    In this video you have a popular Muslim apologist, I believe it's Shabir Ally, giving this argument, and it's really bad. Then again, I've never seen a good apologetic argument for Islam.



    It's got the refutation too, but it's got a short clip of the argument in action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    wow that is really bad theology on the part of Muslims. A word that sounds like their prophet's name? His name means "desireble" or "beloved" (not sure which word is referred to but in Hebrew it is machmâd ) and he was named after the word (or at least it's arabic equivalent). That doesn't mean every time the word is used in the bible it is referring to his name! Eisogesis at it's best (reading meaning into the text)

    It would be like a girl named Hope saying that every mention of the word hope in the bible was referring to her directly.
    Let's see how the same word plays out where it appears in other Scriptures; logically, if the verse in Song of Songs is "Muhammad," then the others should be too.

    1 Kings 20:6: “Yet I will send my servants to thee tomorrow about this time, and they shall search thy house, and the houses of thy servants; and it shall be, [that] whatever is Muhammad in thy eyes, they shall take [it] in their hand, and carry [it] away.”

    2 Chronicles 36:19: “And they burnt the house of God, and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all its palaces with fire, and destroyed all its Muhammad vessels.”

    Isaiah 64:11: “Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned with fire: and all our Muhammad things are laid waste.”

    Lamentations 1:10: “The adversary hath spread out his hand upon all her Muhammad things: for she hath seen [that] the nations entered into her sanctuary, whom thou didst command [that] they should not enter into thy congregation.”

    Lamentations 1:11: “All her people sigh, they seek bread; they have given their Muhammad things for food to relieve the soul: see, O LORD, and consider; for I am become vile.”

    Lamentations 2:4: “He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all [that were] Muhammad to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire.”

    Ezekiel 24:16: “Son of man, behold, I take away from thee the Muhammad of thy eyes with a stroke: yet neither shalt thou mourn nor weep, neither shall thy tears run down.”

    Ezekiel 24:21: “Speak to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will profane my sanctuary, the excellence of your strength, the Muhammad of your eyes, and that which your soul pitieth; and your sons and your daughters whom ye have left shall fall by the sword.”

    Ezekiel 24:25: “Also, thou son of man, [shall it] not [be] in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the Muhammad of their eyes, and that on which they set their minds, their sons and their daughters.”

    Hosea 9:6: “For, lo, they are gone because of destruction: Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them: the Muhammad [places] for their silver, nettles shall possess them: thorns [shall be] in their tabernacles.”

    Hosea 9:16: “Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay [even] the Muhammad [fruit] of their womb.”

    Joel 3:5: “Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my Muhammad things.”

    Another thing that's really weird about putting Muhammad's name in this Scripture it that the lady is describing the man she loves. Why would Muhammad's name crop up in that description?

  12. Amen Cerebrum123, Sparko amen'd this post.

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