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Thread: Muhammad mentioned by name in the Song of Songs?

  1. #211
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bibleuser View Post
    We can as I totally reject the false and pagan Trinity teaching.
    Yes God is as you say.
    As he is MOST JUST so he holds people responsible for their actions.
    So Justice beholds him to withhold his some goodness from people who reject him, true he lets the sun and rain feed all, but the false worshiper is rejected by him, he cannot mix true and false together, because he Loves Truth.
    B U
    Bibleuser,

    You do not understand. Yes, you think the Trinity explanation is pagan. The Trinity explanation affirms that God is only one God (Mark 12:29; 1 Timothy 2:5). The Qur'an (4:171 & 5:116) teaches against tritheism. (Yes, Islam at large uses this against the concept of the Trinity). Which neither you nor Islam understands.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  2. #212
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Yes, there are other covenants. The two called the Old Covenant, the covenant give to the nation of Israel through Moses, and the New Covenant which was to supersede it (Jeremiah 31:31-34). It being the Covenant which God keeps for His peoples. In which those who enter into it, the New Covenant, God fully forgives His peoples sins (Jeremiah 31:34; Hebrews 10:17). But one must enter into it. (John 3:3; Mark 10:15; 1 John 5:1, 9-13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

    thanks

    would not mind more elaboration if anyone wants to add more info
    In the Hebrew Bible there is a prophecy found in Jeremiah 31:31-34 where God promised the people of Israel that He would replace the Covenant He gave them with a New Covenant, ". . . Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. . . ."

    Note this, ". . . for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. . . ." A full and complete forgiveness. Christianity makes the claim to be this New Covenant. In the Hebrew Scripture, Isaiah 53:6, ". . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . ."

    Christians believe Jesus to be that one, ". . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. . . ." (1 Corinthians 15:3-4.)

    In one account, Jesus said to a Jewish leader named Nicodemus, ". . . Except a man be born over, he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . ." (John 3:3.)

    And this birth what God gives to those who believe God that He did this (1 John 5:1, 4, 9-11). [John is the name of the gospel account, 1 John is the name of a letter.]

    Is there some part of this that you like me to further explain?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  3. #213
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    In the Hebrew Bible there is a prophecy found in Jeremiah 31:31-34 where God promised the people of Israel that He would replace the Covenant He gave them with a New Covenant, ". . . Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. . . ."

    Note this, ". . . for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. . . ." A full and complete forgiveness. Christianity makes the claim to be this New Covenant. In the Hebrew Scripture, Isaiah 53:6, ". . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . ."

    Christians believe Jesus to be that one, ". . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. . . ." (1 Corinthians 15:3-4.)

    In one account, Jesus said to a Jewish leader named Nicodemus, ". . . Except a man be born over, he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . ." (John 3:3.)

    And this birth what God gives to those who believe God that He did this (1 John 5:1, 4, 9-11). [John is the name of the gospel account, 1 John is the name of a letter.]

    Is there some part of this that you like me to further explain?
    You did a good job with your first explanation...I was just curious so asked for more info....
    I looked up this site:-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_(biblical)

    According to the wiki article, one method that a covenant/treaty can come into effect/agreed is by a sacrifice? If so, the crucifixion/sacrifice can be interpreted as a method of bringing this "new covenant" into effect? So why is there original sin then?....under the above outline....there would be no need to re-interpret the story of Adam (pbuh) as that of original sin?

    Also---the bolded part (Jeremiah) says that the law will be written in the hearts so there will no longer be any need to teach---Yet Christians actively "teach" (proselytize)...is this a breach of contract?

    and...if the terms of the contract are in the OT, and made with the Jews, why do Christians not refer to themselves as Jews and instead refer to themselves as "Christian"? That is, according to the contract---the (Jewish) law is written on the hearts and obviously Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew...so, in theory, those to whom the contract applies---should be Jews?

    considering these questions.....perhaps the "new covenant" theme is not as important in Christianity?....that is why there is an alternative theme of original sin--sacrifice---resurrection?

    The Quran says it was sent to the Arabs (...and not the Chinese for example....) because of the Abrahamic covenant which promised Abraham(pbuh) that his decedents would be guided...I suppose that would mean that for Muslims the terms of this "new covenant" does not apply as we are under the terms of the older Abrahamic covenant.....?.....

  4. #214
    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bisto View Post
    Mine is earlier

    Scripture Verse: Genesis 1:24

    And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

    © Copyright Original Source

    But I get a mention in Isaiah:

    His breath is like a rushing torrent, rising up to the neck. He shakes the nations in the sieve of destruction; he places in the jaws of the peoples a bit that leads them astray.

    http://biblehub.com/isaiah/30-28.htm

    I also get a mention in the Silmarillion:

    Etymology

    Ancalagon is a Sindarin name, from anc[3] and alag[4] plus the name ending -on. Its meaning is "Rushing Jaws" or "Biting-storm".”


    http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Ancalagon

    Picture showing how gigantic and impressive I am:
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20170627034009

  5. #215
    tWebber
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    The claim that muhd is allegedly mentioned in the Song of Songs is so amusing and comical that it just proves that muslim dawagandists (preachers and propagandists) are really, truly DESPERATE & clutching at straws to make mohd. the founder of islam, appear magically (and illogically) in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

    One such desperado dawagandist, Zakir naik got his fair share of exposure and humiliation by an intelligent Christian who knows proper Hebrew - much more better than Zakir did! This Christian demonstrates how the dawagandist (propogandist) twists, mutilated and did crappy violence to the sublime language of the Hebrew Bible, just "to show" that the false prophet muhd can be found in the OT! Such desperation and false twisting & misrepresentation of the Christian scriptures deserves to be exposed as a nonsensical sham used by muslims desperate to convert Christians.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4mwDf-bbueU

    Be more thoughtful, careful amd alert when listening to such baseless muslim propoganda.

  6. #216
    tWebber
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    Note how Muhammad gets destroyed in the Old Testament, that's because some muslims claim this "name" is mentioned in the OT (Song of Solomon 5:16).

    2 Chronicles 36:9, 19 (ESV)
    And they burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem and burned all its palaces with fire and destroyed all its MUHAMMAD vessels.

    Isaiah 64:11 (ESV) Our holy and beautiful house, where our fathers praised you, has been burned by fire, and all our MUHAMMAD places have become ruins.

    Lamentations 2:4 (ESV) He has bent his bow like an enemy, with his right hand set like a foe; and he has killed all who were MUHAMMAD in our eyes in the tent of the daughter of Zion; he has poured out his fury like fire.

    In all 4 passages above, it is sheer bad exegesis and twisting the original meaning of "machamad-im" & to misrepresent it to mean Muhamed. By turning a totally unrelated word in Hebrew to a proper noun in arabic as "muhammad" or the name of islam's founder is disingenuous and foolish.

    Firstly machamad-im never meant muhamad in any way. It is an adjective in the original language, Hebrew, and not a proper noun, like Muhamad's name is!

    By taking the muslim propagandist's twisted misrepresentation of the word and reading the other verses where it occurs in 2 Chronicles 36, Isaiah 65 & Lamentations 2, etc muhammad gets destroyed, burnt, ruined and killed too!

    If they want to cherry pick the verses that only support their desperate scripture twisting of the OT then it is just hypocrisy and the practise of lying and duplicity, plus the dishonest handling of the Scripture just to prop up a straw man "argument" or polemic that really no basis in the Bible. Muhamad was never prophesied nor even mentioned in either the OT not the NT at all.

  7. #217
    tWebber
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    Muslims routinely cherry-pick Bible verses because they are so very desperate to show that muhamed, their self-proclaimed "prophet" can somehow be magically "found in the OT & NT"!

    They therefore read the Sacred Scriptures of Christians with biased prejudice and jaundiced eyes, only seeking validation for the so-called "coming of muhd" fulfilment of prophecy allegedly made by "previous prophets ", when references to Muhamed, his name and work absolutely CANNOT be found, they hurl the ludicrous accusation ay the Christians have falsified or corrupted the Scriptures!

    I've asked siam, the dawagandist here, how can he/she prove that muhamed was an "appointed prophet" of God, especially in the light of how muhamed "received his revelations" in the weirdest, strangest ways as described by the valid orthodox Hadith & sirah sources.

    Ways that were never typical of the biblical prophets and the spiritual leaders' reception of the Word of God.

    Some muslims claim that Muhammad's revelations were public knowledge and could be seen or heard by third parties around him at the time.

    But the orthodox islamic sources tell us otherwise.

    We learn from Islamic tradition that on several occasions when Muhammad saw the spirit, he would be so frightened he would run home to his wife and ask her to cover him with clothes:

    "I was called again and raised my head, and there on the Throne in the open atmosphere he, i.e. Gabriel (peace be upon him) was sitting. I began to tremble on account of fear. I came to Khadija and said: Wrap me up. They wrapped me up and threw water on me..." (Sahih Muslim book 1 ch.74 no.307 p.100. Narrated by Jabir)

    At other times, Muhammad experienced some strange physical symptoms. From the Hadith Mishkat, we learn that, sometimes he would shiver and swoon, roar and snort like a she-camel and white foamy saliva would spill out from his mouth (Hadith Mishkat iv p.359).

    Sometimes when he "received revelation(s) there was the sound like the Buzzing of bees near his face" (source: Umar Ibnu'l Khattab), while at other times, he felt a tremendous, terrible headache.

    Muhammad once said: "At times it comes to me like the ringing of a bell and that is most severe for me... and at time an Angel in the form of a human being comes to me... (Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 28 no.5765-5767 p.1248)

    It is unclear why Mohammed later said, "...The bell is the musical instrument of Satan." Sahih Muslim vol.3 book 22 no.5279, also Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2548 -2550

    According Ahmad b. Hanbal, "He became distressed, foaming at the mouth and closing his eyes. At times he snorted like a young camel (Ahmad b. Hanbal I, 34, 464, vi.163). This gave rise to the allegation in certain quarters Muhammad was also an epileptic.

    Prophet Muhammad, according to 'Amr Ibn Sharhabil, HIMSELF mentioned to his wife, Khadija, that he feared he was possessed by DEMONS and jinns and wondered whether others consider him possessed [i.e. evil spirits] (source: pfan. Note 1910:345).

    These statements about the physical symptoms exhibited by Muhammad when he saw the spirit were NOT MADE by strangers, non Muslims or people who did not know him. These statements were made actually by Aisha, Muhammad's favourite wife, relatives, the sahabah and his close followers who strongly believed that he was the seal of the prophets. All these people happened to be very committed Muslims who knew the alleged prophet well!

    Yet when the same angel Gabriel visited Daniel, Zachariah, Mary and other Jewish prophets in the OT, none of them had convulsions, with foam coming from their mouths. Neither did they hear the sounds of bells ringing nor the buzzing of bees near their faces. They did not roar like a camel or swoon, etc.

    Over time Muhammad started having some doubts about the revelations he received from the spirit. Allah (God) directed Muhammad to check the truth from the Bible: If thou wert in doubt as to what we have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the book from before thee (Sura Yunus 10:94).

    The 'book' mentioned in this verse is the Holy Bible obviously. So Muslims are commanded by Allah to study the Bible minus all their unfounded prejudices!

    But a demon-possessed muhamed is a great disservice to mankind, for sure! Siam needs to answer those questions honestly & sensibly, and with proper knowledge of the Christian Bible, objectively & free from islamic polemics! So far siam has only fearfully avoided answering these points of the history of muhamed's strangely getting the wahy ("revelations"), even though I have quoted only from orthodox muslim sources!




    Quote Originally Posted by siam View Post
    You did a good job with your first explanation...I was just curious so asked for more info....
    I looked up this site:-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_(biblical)

    According to the wiki article, one method that a covenant/treaty can come into effect/agreed is by a sacrifice? If so, the crucifixion/sacrifice can be interpreted as a method of bringing this "new covenant" into effect? So why is there original sin then?....under the above outline....there would be no need to re-interpret the story of Adam (pbuh) as that of original sin?

    Also---the bolded part (Jeremiah) says that the law will be written in the hearts so there will no longer be any need to teach---Yet Christians actively "teach" (proselytize)...is this a breach of contract?

    and...if the terms of the contract are in the OT, and made with the Jews, why do Christians not refer to themselves as Jews and instead refer to themselves as "Christian"? That is, according to the contract---the (Jewish) law is written on the hearts and obviously Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew...so, in theory, those to whom the contract applies---should be Jews?

    considering these questions.....perhaps the "new covenant" theme is not as important in Christianity?....that is why there is an alternative theme of original sin--sacrifice---resurrection?

    The Quran says it was sent to the Arabs (...and not the Chinese for example....) because of the Abrahamic covenant which promised Abraham(pbuh) that his decedents would be guided...I suppose that would mean that for Muslims the terms of this "new covenant" does not apply as we are under the terms of the older Abrahamic covenant.....?.....

  8. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.

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