Muhammad mentioned by name in the Song of Songs?

[Christian3]

Song of Solomon 5:16 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

16 His mouth is sweetness.
He is absolutely desirable.
This is my love, and this is my friend,
young women of Jerusalem.

Muslims: Do you believe Muhammad's name appears in the Song of Songs?

Thank you.

[siam]

[KingsGambit]

Christian3, can you expand on why this Song of Songs reference might mention Muhammad?

[Christian3]

Christian3, can you expand on why this Song of Songs reference might mention Muhammad?

I don't believe it does, but Muslims do. The following is from a Muslim site:

Clips:

Prophet Muhammad (s) is mentioned in the Bible by name many times but twice by the name of Muhammad, once in the Songs of Solomon

5:16 His mouth [is] most sweet: yes, he [is] Muhammad. This [is] my beloved, and this [is] my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
Lets read this verse in the original language,

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

[Christian3]

I'll take each of your "Muhammad in the Bible" Scriptures in separate posts.

Let's look &:157 in context:

Literal
(Word by Word) Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find him written with them in the Taurat and the Injeel. He commands them to the right and forbids them from the wrong, and he makes lawful for them the pure things and makes unlawful for them the impure things and he relieves from them their burden and the fetters which were upon them. So those who believe in him and honor him, and help him and follow the light which has been sent down with him. Those (are) [they] the successful ones."

"unlettered prophet" means Muhammad was not taught -- he did not go to school -- correct?

[Christian3]

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

1.
MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:


Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):


i)

Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]


ii)
Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

iii)
Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)


Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

Words in the mouth:

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

[Deuteronomy 18:18]


iv)
Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).

v)
Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."

iv)
Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

2.
It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19


"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

From Hebrew to English:

1The Levitic kohanim, the entire tribe of Levi, shall have no portion or inheritance with Israel; the Lord's fire offerings and His inheritance they shall eat.

15A prophet from among you, from your brothers, like me, the Lord, your God will set up for you;
you shall hearken to him.

It is clear from the context that the tribe of Levi is excluded. It is also clear from the context that the Prophet like Moses would come from the remaining tribes of Israel.

"But the children of Benjamin would not listen to the voice of their brethren, the children of Israel." Judges 20.13

Here "their brethren" is specifically stated to be the other tribes of Israel as distinct from the tribe of Benjamin. In Deuteronomy 18.18, therefore, "their brethren" clearly means the brethren in Israel of the tribe of Levi. Again in Numbers 8.26 the tribe of Levi is commanded to minister to "their brethren", that is, the remaining tribes of Israel. In 2 Kings 24.12 the tribe of Judah is distinguished from "their brethren", once again the remaining tribes of Israel. (Further scriptures proving the point are Judges 21.22, 2 Samuel 2.26, 2 Kings 23.9, 1 Chronicles 12.32, 2 Chronicles 28.15, Nehemiah 5.1 and others).


In Deuteronomy 17.15 we read that Moses on one occasion said to the Israelites "One from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother". Only an Israelite could be appointed king of Israel - "one from among your brethren" - no foreigner, be he Ishmaelite, Edomite or whoever he may be, could be made King of Israel because he was not one of "their brethren", that is, a member of one of the tribes of Israel.


This leaves Muhammad out since he did not come from the tribes of Israel.

[Sparko]

I don't believe it does, but Muslims do. The following is from a Muslim site:

Clips:

Prophet Muhammad (s) is mentioned in the Bible by name many times but twice by the name of Muhammad, once in the Songs of Solomon

5:16 His mouth [is] most sweet: yes, he [is] Muhammad. This [is] my beloved, and this [is] my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
Lets read this verse in the original language,

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

wow that is really bad theology on the part of Muslims. A word that sounds like their prophet's name? His name means "desireble" or "beloved" (not sure which word is referred to but in Hebrew it is machmâd ) and he was named after the word (or at least it's arabic equivalent). That doesn't mean every time the word is used in the bible it is referring to his name! Eisogesis at it's best (reading meaning into the text)

It would be like a girl named Hope saying that every mention of the word hope in the bible was referring to her directly.

[Cerebrum123]

Some of the earliest and most reliable Islamic sources show that Mohammed spoke a revelation from Satan that endorsed polytheism. Therefor Mohammed was a false prophet, and if the laws in Deuteronomy were in effect during his life he would have been executed for this. There is even evidence in the Koran that Mohammed gave "revelations" from Satan!

Koran Surah 22:52 Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:

In order to cover this up "Allah" is now saying that ALL prophets were fooled by Satan in this way. Not only that, but the main argument for the Koran is that no one can bring anything as eloquent as it, yet Satan was able to fool everyone into believing that his "revelation" was genuine. Sounds like the "challenge" has been met.

Koran Surah 2:23 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

An example of a full Surah near the end of the Koran.

112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4 And there is none like unto Him.

Yeah, nobody could ever write something like that, it must be from God!

[Cerebrum123]

wow that is really bad theology on the part of Muslims. A word that sounds like their prophet's name? His name means "desireble" or "beloved" (not sure which word is referred to but in Hebrew it is machmâd ) and he was named after the word (or at least it's arabic equivalent). That doesn't mean every time the word is used in the bible it is referring to his name! Eisogesis at it's best (reading meaning into the text)

It would be like a girl named Hope saying that every mention of the word hope in the bible was referring to her directly.

In this video you have a popular Muslim apologist, I believe it's Shabir Ally, giving this argument, and it's really bad. Then again, I've never seen a good apologetic argument for Islam.

It's got the refutation too, but it's got a short clip of the argument in action.

[Christian3]

wow that is really bad theology on the part of Muslims. A word that sounds like their prophet's name? His name means "desireble" or "beloved" (not sure which word is referred to but in Hebrew it is machmâd ) and he was named after the word (or at least it's arabic equivalent). That doesn't mean every time the word is used in the bible it is referring to his name! Eisogesis at it's best (reading meaning into the text)

It would be like a girl named Hope saying that every mention of the word hope in the bible was referring to her directly.

MuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammadMuhammad

[Christian3]

In this video you have a popular Muslim apologist, I believe it's Shabir Ally, giving this argument, and it's really bad. Then again, I've never seen a good apologetic argument for Islam.

It's got the refutation too, but it's got a short clip of the argument in action.

That's a great video.

Why do Muslim scholars try to fool their Muslim brothers and sisters this way and why do Muslims fall for it?

[Cerebrum123]

That's a great video.

Why do Muslim scholars try to fool their Muslim brothers and sisters this way and why do Muslims fall for it?

Apostasy is a death penalty in Islam, often by something like beheading. Never underestimate the psychological pressure of a potential beheading.

ETA: I suggest watching more of the videos on that channel. They are very informative, and often rather entertaining as well. There are some with some very disturbing information though, so keep that in mind. The early Muslim sources are rather filthy. It's the kind of stuff you want to forget ever happened, but you know the information needs to be addressed.

[Christian3]

Apostasy is a death penalty in Islam, often by something like beheading. Never underestimate the psychological pressure of a potential beheading.

ETA: I suggest watching more of the videos on that channel. They are very informative, and often rather entertaining as well. There are some with some very disturbing information though, so keep that in mind. The early Muslim sources are rather filthy. It's the kind of stuff you want to forget ever happened, but you know the information needs to be addressed.

I've watched a number of David Wood's videos and they are good.

[Christian3]

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".

Didn't Muhammad say "I cannot read"? What do you think not being "learned" means?

Isaiah 29:12 is not a prophecy at all.

Answering Islam provides an analysis of Isaiah 29:

Isaiah 29 is a chapter announcing punishment on Israel.

(3) I will encamp against you all around; I will encircle you with towers and set up my siege works against you. (4) Brought low, you will speak from the ground; your speech will mumble out of the dust. Your voice will come ghostlike from the earth; out of the dust your speech will whisper.

As part of the punishment God will also take away the ability to read (understand) the holy word because they have disobeyed it for so long. In particular, verse 10 states clearly that the prophets and seers themselves will be put to sleep and no longer receive revelation from the LORD.

(9) Be stunned and amazed, blind yourselves and be sightless; be drunk, but not from wine, stagger, but not from beer. (10) The LORD has brought over you a deep sleep: He has sealed your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers. (11) For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say to him, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I can't; it is sealed." (12) Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I don't know how to read." (13) The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.

Do you think these verses refer to Muhammad? The heart far from God, with worship that is not according to God's will but according to what men have invented (v.13) and that his inability to read is part of God's punishment? It is a sign of God putting a deep sleep on the people regarding spiritual matters, so that regardless how knowledgeable they are, they would nevertheless be unable to read (comprehend) what the word of God means.

Reading the Bible and interpreting it correctly is a little harder than just taking a verse and deciding what you think it means. It's never a good idea to take a verse out of context.

[Sparko]

Christian3, go here http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/pr...do=editprofile and set your faith in your profile please.