Messianic Prophecies Examined

[shunyadragon]

According to the Talmud, he did exist. However, even that would not refute my arugment. I am arguing that Judaism has changed its beliefs in response to Christianity.

Can you document this change within the Hebrew community. Other than the NT itself do you have any other documents that expected things like an Incarnate God and the end of the observance of the Laws of the Torah.

How are they questionable? You've made a claim, now you must back it up. According to Micah 5.2, the Messiah has not beginning and according to Daniel 7.9, and Isaiah 57.15, only God has no beginning.

I feel Micah 5:2 refers to the everlasting lineage of the Messiah and King of Isreal. Jesus Christ could not have been consider the ruler of King of Isreal. In fact Christianity becomes completely seperate from Isreal and if anything Isreal is set asside. How would Christ be considered a ruler of Isreal? I would like others to comment on this prophecy and it's meaning.

What passage do you have that says explicitly that he will not be God?

The messiah being God incarnate would be an important thing in prophesy and no where does in indicate in prophecy that the 'Annointed One' will be a God incarnate. Your the one that made the claim, now back it up.

[Menachem]

You make talk as though you do. That would be like me claiming "it does not say that in Hebrew" which I could not do because I don't know Hebrew.

I Have learned a lttle bit of greek in my days as a student... Ok Since you dont know Hebrew then what would make you qualified to tell me what the Tanakh says and what it doesn't say...King James english is no substitute for Hebrew

many christians particularly here in the USA can't read Greek, for the NT, even and think that G-d gave them the bible in King James English....so quoting english to them would be equal to quoting Hebrew to me...

That's because Jews are just as stubborn and stiff-necked as they were 2000 years ago. No wonder Jesus had do all those miracles and even rise from the dead to covince them!

I beg your pardon but Jesus didnt do so much as a single miracle to warrrant any Jewish notification of any spontanious miracle....maybe if he spontaneously combusted he might have been written down in our writings....

Besides all of his so called "miracles" are covered in Deuteronomy 13...

[theseed]

I Have learned a lttle bit of greek in my days as a student... Ok Since you dont know Hebrew then what would make you qualified to tell me what the Tanakh says and what it doesn't say...King James english is no substitute for Hebrew

I use the 1917 JPS version, the only version I Jewish translation I have found. Also, I rely on logic-based arguments rather than semantic based arguments.

I beg your pardon but Jesus didnt do so much as a single miracle to warrrant any Jewish notification of any spontanious miracle....maybe if he spontaneously combusted he might have been written down in our writings....

Besides all of his so called "miracles" are covered in Deuteronomy 13...

The Talmud says that Yeshua was a sorcerer that decieved many.

[theseed]

Other than the NT itself do you have any other documents that expected things like an Incarnate God and the end of the observance of the Laws of the Torah.

Who said that the obersvance of The Torah was ended?

I feel Micah 5:2 refers to the everlasting lineage of the Messiah and King of Isreal. Jesus Christ could not have been consider the ruler of King of Isreal. In fact Christianity becomes completely seperate from Isreal and if anything Isreal is set asside. How would Christ be considered a ruler of Isreal? I would like others to comment on this prophecy and it's meaning.

Your argument does not make sense. Who said anything Israel is set aside?

The messiah being God incarnate would be an important thing in prophesy and no where does in indicate in prophecy that the 'Annointed One' will be a God incarnate. Your the one that made the claim, now back it up.

I asked you to show me where it says in the OT that The Messiah is not God. I am still waiting.

[theseed]

There is not any record of thousands of Jews becoming Christians outside vague claims in the Bible. All indication of the history of Christianity after the life of Christ is that conversions were for the most part among the non-Jewish population of the region and Asia Minor.

Since you reject The Bible, then you no longer need to post in this thread. Nothing you will claim holds salt.

Your statements that Jewish theology has changed is false. It is basically very much the same. This has a good side and a bad side. Jews like Christians are living in the past in a unrealistic view of the good old days when

When on God's green earth were the good old days? Right before Adam and Eve sinned.

[Sacrificial Ram]

I use the 1917 JPS version, the only version I Jewish translation I have found. Also, I rely on logic-based arguments rather than semantic based arguments.

The Talmud says that Yeshua was a sorcerer that decieved many.

1) The Talmud was written in the 2nd to the 4th Century..

2) Yeshua was a very common name, and the particular one you are talking about was about someone from 100 years before the one you are thinking of.

[theseed]

1) The Talmud was written in the 2nd to the 4th Century..

2) Yeshua was a very common name, and the particular one you are talking about was about someone from 100 years before the one you are thinking of.

Wow, what a coincidence, there were 2 Yeshua's that decieved many people using supernatural powers. I bet the odds of that are astronomical!

What proof do you have?

[Sacrificial Ram]

Wow, what a coincidence, there were 2 Yeshua's that decieved many people using supernatural powers. I bet the odds of that are astronomical!

What proof do you have?

Actually, there were about 22 yeshuas mentioned in the talmud.

Which particular one are you talking about?

ALso, remember, the Babylonian Talmud was written 200 years after the alledged events, in babalyonian, not in Jersualum. Really good accurate info there, huh?

[Menachem]

I use the 1917 JPS version, the only version I Jewish translation I have found. Also, I rely on logic-based arguments rather than semantic based arguments.

The 1917 JPS is the king james version of te hebrew bible with a few corrections to the english translation....You rely on logic based arguments you say...when were you going to start using them I havent seen one yet...

The Talmud says that Yeshua was a sorcerer that decieved many.

Actually the name of this person in the Talmud was Yeshu(ישו ) not Yeshu'a. This person in question lived about 200 years before jesus was even born...

go figure... christians will try to use the Talmud to point to jesus when they dont even hold it authoritative...interesting....

[theseed]

The 1917 JPS is the king james version of te hebrew bible with a few corrections to the english translation....You rely on logic based arguments you say...when were you going to start using them I havent seen one yet...



Actually the name of this person in the Talmud was Yeshu(ישו ) not Yeshu'a. This person in question lived about 200 years before jesus was even born...

go figure... christians will try to use the Talmud to point to jesus when they dont even hold it authoritative...interesting....

go figure... christians will try to use the Talmud to point to jesus when they dont even hold it authoritative...interesting....

No, they use it to show that Jesus existed.

[shunyadragon]

Wow, what a coincidence, there were 2 Yeshua's that decieved many people using supernatural powers. I bet the odds of that are astronomical!

What proof do you have?

What proof do we have that Jesus Christ did what they say he did in the NT?

[shunyadragon]

Since you reject The Bible, then you no longer need to post in this thread. Nothing you will claim holds salt.

Would you say that eliyosef, Sacrificial Ram also 'no longer need to post in this thread', because they do not accept your line that the NT is the literal infalliable word of God?

Let's here it from them. Do you guys think there is any evidence that thousands of Jews became Christian when Christ claimed to be the messiah?

Pass the salt.

When on God's green earth were the good old days? Right before Adam and Eve sinned.

This would be more in line with your belief. To me the good old days never existed.

[Sacrificial Ram]

Would you say that eliyosef, Sacrificial Ram also 'no longer need to post in this thread', because they do not accept your line that the NT is the literal infalliable word of God?

Let's here it from them. Do you guys think there is any evidence that thousands of Jews became Christian when Christ claimed to be the messiah?

Pass the salt.

This would be more in line with your belief. To me the good old days never existed.

Well, except for one forgery inserted into antiquities 18 in the 4th century, the first real secular mention of them was in the early second century by Pilny the Younger. This would hardly be a case of there being 'thousands'
of Jewish christians.

[Menachem]

Would you say that eliyosef, Sacrificial Ram also 'no longer need to post in this thread', because they do not accept your line that the NT is the literal infalliable word of God?

I think thats a fair line of thinking

Let's here it from them. Do you guys think there is any evidence that thousands of Jews became Christian when Christ claimed to be the messiah?

Pass the salt.

This would be more in line with your belief. To me the good old days never existed.

As for the evidence, there really isnt anything other than the gospels to suggest a massive conversion of Jewish people to christianity....

As far as I could tell from the GNT Christianity was such a failure at converting the Jewish people they went against jesus' teaching and went for the Gentiles who were gullible enough to accept it.....

passes the salt and requests the pepper.

[heaven]

Dear Eliyosef.......................................................The early jewish church history and spirituality can be found in the deposit of faith
preserved by the catholic churches, east and west. Please search out the extensive
records of the Orthodox church on the net, where the life of the apostles and the
jewish sect called the way is minutely detailed, liturgical ceremonies , laying on of hands. There you will find the pedigree!
etc.
The deposit of faith is the way resulting in the ingrafting of the wild olive branch, gentiles into
the cultivated tree.
The Brit Hadasha is a compilation of the gospels and commentary on the Torah,
Prophets and Tenach. wherein all the pieces of the puzzle fit in perfectly , through
the scriptures, jewish feasts and liturgy.
The church was jewish and as evangelization took place, the gentiles slowly became
more numerous. After the persecution of the church by Rome, Constantine converted
and made christianity the state religion, wherein christianity became a more greco
western and less hebraic in character.
The forgiveness of sins, redemption from the curse and healing of the soul and spirit and body is for jew and gentile.