Muhammad’s view of heaven seems closer to a description of

[bling]

I must be missing something or maybe I am misinterpreting Muhammad’s parable.

1. One Muslim for me did a great job of showing from the Quran and hadiths that God is omnipresent, so if we are in God’s spiritual real (heaven) we should be able to see God with us? Any Father that really Loves His children wants to be around them as much as he can and they will allow, so what would keep God from being around us all the time Can we have God as our best friend along with being our Father and would God want to be our friend? I am not seeing God being that close to me in the Muhammad description of heaven?

2. God has a Godly type Love that is totally selfless, always serving others over self, is humble, and much greater and stronger than any other type of love. Carnal or sensual types “love” are naturally selfish and a total contradiction to Godly type Love, yet carnal type love seems to be what Muhammad is describing in heaven? Godly type love is serving others while carnal “love” is being served; yet I receive joy from serving other and only enjoy being served by others when it helps those that are serving grow in Godly type Love.

3. How can you go from being disgusted by and teaching against carnal love and also showing all the joy with Godly type Love (selfless Love) and then teach that Heaven is a place of carnal love? If we all have the heaven we personally desire, I am not seeing Muhammad saying that? How comfortable would it be at a Hollywood Party and not be able to work on changing the thinking of those around us involved in carnal loving?

4. The Muhammad heaven with all these levels and different sensual rewards would be a place where beings would be able to covet (even lust after) what others had. In the Christian heaven there are no real “levels” and God the Father is there providing everything we desire. Yes, former humans in heaven will have different degrees of Love they have developed while on earth, but that just means they Love you more than you Love them, so there is nothing to covet in that situation.

5. The Christian heaven allows the former human to still have the needed free will; so He/she can Love like God Loves (out of a free will decision) and yet could sin, but will not. The reason we will not sin in heaven is because (unlike in the Garden) there is no desirable tree of knowledge (we have all the knowledge we can handle from God), satan is not in heaven to tempt us and we have knowledge of him through experience, we are no longer sexual beings (sexuality naturally produces competition) and God is now visibly with us all the time.

6. Muhammad’s heaven still has us as sexual beings; while Christ tells us we will be like the angels (angels are not male or female according to scripture, but are given male names). Sexuality is needed on earth to reproduce, provide a way to raise a family (partners with different roles) and provide a way for one man and one woman to be complete (as an example; marriage helps gain a better understanding of Godly type Love). Does being sexual brings out the competitive nature, it is part of the immediate family (we are now part of God’s one huge family) and makes at least man and women with different roles.

[Bowman]

I must be missing something or maybe I am misinterpreting Muhammad’s parable.

1. One Muslim for me did a great job of showing from the Quran and hadiths that God is omnipresent, so if we are in God’s spiritual real (heaven) we should be able to see God with us? Any Father that really Loves His children wants to be around them as much as he can and they will allow, so what would keep God from being around us all the time Can we have God as our best friend along with being our Father and would God want to be our friend? I am not seeing God being that close to me in the Muhammad description of heaven?

2. God has a Godly type Love that is totally selfless, always serving others over self, is humble, and much greater and stronger than any other type of love. Carnal or sensual types “love” are naturally selfish and a total contradiction to Godly type Love, yet carnal type love seems to be what Muhammad is describing in heaven? Godly type love is serving others while carnal “love” is being served; yet I receive joy from serving other and only enjoy being served by others when it helps those that are serving grow in Godly type Love.

3. How can you go from being disgusted by and teaching against carnal love and also showing all the joy with Godly type Love (selfless Love) and then teach that Heaven is a place of carnal love? If we all have the heaven we personally desire, I am not seeing Muhammad saying that? How comfortable would it be at a Hollywood Party and not be able to work on changing the thinking of those around us involved in carnal loving?

4. The Muhammad heaven with all these levels and different sensual rewards would be a place where beings would be able to covet (even lust after) what others had. In the Christian heaven there are no real “levels” and God the Father is there providing everything we desire. Yes, former humans in heaven will have different degrees of Love they have developed while on earth, but that just means they Love you more than you Love them, so there is nothing to covet in that situation.

5. The Christian heaven allows the former human to still have the needed free will; so He/she can Love like God Loves (out of a free will decision) and yet could sin, but will not. The reason we will not sin in heaven is because (unlike in the Garden) there is no desirable tree of knowledge (we have all the knowledge we can handle from God), satan is not in heaven to tempt us and we have knowledge of him through experience, we are no longer sexual beings (sexuality naturally produces competition) and God is now visibly with us all the time.

6. Muhammad’s heaven still has us as sexual beings; while Christ tells us we will be like the angels (angels are not male or female according to scripture, but are given male names). Sexuality is needed on earth to reproduce, provide a way to raise a family (partners with different roles) and provide a way for one man and one woman to be complete (as an example; marriage helps gain a better understanding of Godly type Love). Does being sexual brings out the competitive nature, it is part of the immediate family (we are now part of God’s one huge family) and makes at least man and women with different roles.

The Koranic heaven is not a carnal heaven.

Only islam has mis-interpreted it to be this way.

The Koranic heaven was copied straight out of the pages of the Book of Revelation.

[bling]

Where are the 72 virgins in the book of Rev.?

[Bowman]

Where are the 72 virgins in the book of Rev.?

This is an islamic invention.

This is not found in either the Holy Bible nor the Koran.

[Ilah]

True. It's found in a Hadith or so.

[bling]

This is an islamic invention.

This is not found in either the Holy Bible nor the Koran.

Muhammad’s View of Heaven Seems Closer to a Description Of,

I did try to look up in the Quran information on heaven and there is not much said.

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner, but this is a very broad question.

I first “claimed” that: “Mohammad view of heaven is closer to a description of hell for me.”

Since this is my “feeling” it really needs no “support”. But I did try to show my logic behind that conclusion and I will give my understanding of the verses in the Quran (You can help me with understanding the Quran verses).
1. From my personal experience, talking with others, the Bible and what I have read in psychology, the best marriages relationships are between one man and one woman committed as equal Loving partners, without other sexual partners. The man mainly seeing to the support and gratification of the wife and the wife seeing to the support and gratification of the husband.

It is OK if this marriage relationship is replaced in heaven with something better, but having multiple sexual is worse and not better by my understanding and that is what the Quran seems to be saying will happen:

Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny? In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn [these are the spirits between angels and men] before them has touched; Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny? Like unto Rubies and coral. Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny? Is there any Reward for Good – other than Good? Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?" (Sura 55:46-61)

And (there will be) companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes [that is, attractive girls], like unto pearls well-guarded. A reward for the deeds of their past (life). (Sura 56: 4-26)

Sura 78:31-36: "Verily for the righteous there will be a fulfillment of (the heart's) desires; gardens enclosed, and grapevines; companions of equal age; and a cup full (to the brim). No vanity shall they hear therein, nor untruth: recompense from thy Lord, a gift, (amply) sufficient..."

And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls. And when thou lookest, it is there thou wilt see a bliss and a realm magnificent. Upon them will be green garments of fine silk and heavy brocade, and they will be adorned with bracelets of silver; and their Lord will give to them to drink of a wine pure and holy. 'Verily this is a reward for you, and your endeavor is accepted and recognized'." (Sura 76:5-22)

2. I already gave verse show God to be close to and around at least His people on earth today :

TO God belongs the East and the West,
Wheresoever you look is the face of God.
Qur'an 2:115

'" Hova Ma'akum Aina Ma Kuntum - God is with you, wheresoever you may be ! [ 57:4 ],


" ... We are nearer to him (man) than his jugular vein [50:16].


" (O Prophet) When My servants ask you concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the Call of every Caller when he calls on me: So, let them listen to Me and trust Me. This will put them on the right path. [2:186] "
The problem is all the descriptions in the Quran I have found do not show God to be around those in heaven at all except at maybe at judgment, but I have not even found God there? The verses I looked at: (Sura 76: 5-22), (Sura 55: 46-51), (Sura 78: 31-36) and (Sura 56: 4-26).


Since we become spiritual beings in heaven will we be able to see God?

Right now God’s Spirit is with me constantly, but I cannot “see” Him physically, so why would I want to go to a place where God is distant from me?

3. The idea of “levels” in heaven and “earning” different heavenly rewards seems contrary to a Loving (charitable/ giving) Father concept, but maybe I do not understand God’s Love?

The same verses above in two talks about being “rewarded” according to your deeds here on earth.

(Sura 56: 4-26) “…And those foremost (in faith) will be foremost (in the hereafter)…. A reward for the deeds of their past (life)….”

My understanding of “true God like Love” is one of wanting to always (sacrificially if needed) give to others out of a Loving heart. Having “more” just means you can give more to others that have less?

[Bowman]

Muhammad’s View of Heaven Seems Closer to a Description Of,

I did try to look up in the Quran information on heaven and there is not much said.

Sorry I did not get back to you sooner, but this is a very broad question.

I first “claimed” that: “Mohammad view of heaven is closer to a description of hell for me.”

Since this is my “feeling” it really needs no “support”. But I did try to show my logic behind that conclusion and I will give my understanding of the verses in the Quran (You can help me with understanding the Quran verses).
1. From my personal experience, talking with others, the Bible and what I have read in psychology, the best marriages relationships are between one man and one woman committed as equal Loving partners, without other sexual partners. The man mainly seeing to the support and gratification of the wife and the wife seeing to the support and gratification of the husband.

It is OK if this marriage relationship is replaced in heaven with something better, but having multiple sexual is worse and not better by my understanding and that is what the Quran seems to be saying will happen:

Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny? In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn [these are the spirits between angels and men] before them has touched; Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny? Like unto Rubies and coral. Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny? Is there any Reward for Good – other than Good? Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?" (Sura 55:46-61)

Let’s begin with your first set of ayat, and see exactly how it relates to Book of Revelation material and not Islamic carnal lust…


55.46 And to who feared his Lord's standing, two treed gardens. (The gardens of Paradise await Jesus’ Elect)

55.47 So with which powers of your Lord will you two deny? (Refrain)

55.48 Endowed with tree branches. (The Tree of Life)

55.49 So with which powers of your Lord will you two deny? (Refrain)

55.50 In them two small hollows, the two flow. (The Water of Life)

55.51 So with which powers of your Lord will you two deny? (Refrain)

55.52 In them from each fruit, two kinds. (The Tree of Life)

55.53 So with which powers of your Lord will you two deny? (Refrain)

55.54 Reclining before spreads, its coverings from gold, and fruit ready to be plucked between the two gardens. (The Tree of Life)

55.55 So with which powers of your Lord will you two deny? (Refrain)

55.56 In them, restraining the eye, not touched (by) man before them, and nor demon. (Jesus’ Elect in Paradise)

55.57 So with which powers of your Lord will you two deny? (Refrain)

55.58 Since they are the gems and the large pearls. (The twelve disciples & the twelve sons of Israel)

55.59 So with which powers of your Lord will you two deny? (Refrain)

55.60 Is the compensation kindness, except the kindness? (Reward for Jesus’ Elect)

55.61 So with which powers of your Lord will you two deny? (Refrain)



In particular, let’s review a key passage…

فيهن قصرت الطرف لم يطمثهن إنس قبلهم ولا جان

Feehinna qasiratu alttarfi lam yatmithhunna insun qablahum wala jannun

55.56 In them, restraining the eye, not touched (by) man before them, and nor demon.




Defining the very terms used by many ‘scholars’, showing every possibility…


قصرت= “qasiratu”

“qasiratu” definition:

Active participle, feminine plural. Restraining, modest (looks).

It comes from the root “qasara”, which means it, (a thing, i.e. anything) was, or became, short; it was, or became too short; he left, desisted from, neglected, or left undone, a thing, or part thereof, from inability; he left or relinquished it; he made it short; he shortened it; took from its length. The night withheld them; namely a company of riders upon camels or other beasts. He beat, washed, and whitened, the cloth, or garment. The falling, or stopping, or coming short of accomplishing an affair; or of doing what one aught, or is commanded to do; or flagging, or remissness. The act of confining, restricting, limiting. to shorten, cut short, curtail, confine, restrict. It was, or became, short, or too short. The afternoon or evening; the time before the sun becomes yellow; the time of the mixing of the darkness. A palace; a pavilion, or kind of building wholly or for the most part isolated, sometimes on the top of a larger building, i.e. a belvedere, and sometimes projecting from a larger building, and generally consisting of one room if forming a part of a larger building or connected with another building. A well known type of edifice; a mansion or house; or any house or chamber of stone. Large and dry, or large and thick, or dry, firewood. The necks of men, and of camels.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume seven, pp. 2532 - 2536
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 456




طرف= “tarfi”

“tarfi” definition:

Noun. Eye; glance; sight; looking; blinking; Yemenite noble messenger. Noble man in respect of ancestry.

الطرف= “al” + “tarfi” = “alttarfi” = putting the eyelids in motion, or in a state of commotion, in looking. The act of looking. The eye. The slapping with the hand upon the extremity of the eye; the striking upon the head. The name of two stars, so called because they are regarded as the two eyes of Leo; one of the mansions of the moon; or the star in the face of Leo; or the bright star on the hinder, southern leg or foot (i.e. claw) of cancer.

It comes from the root “tarafa”, which means he looked from the outer angle of the eye; or he twinkled with his eye; he put the edge of his eyelid in motion, or in a state of commotion; to twinkle (eyes), hurt (the eye) and make it water, be newly acquired (property), descend from an ancient family, attack the extremity of the enemy lines, chose a thing. It (property) was recently, or newly, acquired; or it (a thing) was good (and recent or new or fresh). He, a man, fought around the army. Anything chosen or choice. A generous horse, one that is looked at because of its beauty. A horse long in the legs or the neck, having the ears pointed, tapered, or slender at the extremities. The extremity or end of anything; a side; a lateral, or an outward, or adjacent, part or portion; a region, district, quarter, or tract; and a part, portion, piece of a thing. The tongue.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume five, pp. 1841- 1846
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 337 -338



As you can see, these two terms cannot possibly be rendered as ‘chaste females’…..they are not even an option…