What happened to the demons?

[Xmansmommy]

If you go back to the early pages of this thread you will note that from the very start it was plagued with spam by theists, with Pat doing his best to keep it on track against all odds.

I did notice and that is why I amen'd the mod comments. My issue was with his personal bias in complaining about the theists who were taking the thread off topic while not one mention of the non theists doing the same.

To get back on track, the story of the demons in this passage, as in all scriptural passages, was an attempt to explain mental illness in the only terms that could be understood in the centuries before psychiatry developed – although clearly with some added poetic license in this particular story.

I understand poetic license in discussing the issue of demons, mental illness, etc. Some of the other in depth discussion was off topic still but as I noted, it is Pat's thread and he can certainly allow for that. It just makes it less appealing (to me, fwiw) to dig through pages of off topic discussion on a thread about demons. And also fwiw, I skipped over several pages because they were indeed off topic.

[Xmansmommy]

What??? You should really try to understand what’s being complained about before you make such a dumb mistake. I don’t mind people going off topic. This happens a lot and I do it myself if a conversation leads in a certain direction.

I understood full well what you were complaining about, Pat. I didn't suggest you were complaining about the topic moving in different directions. My complaint was that you didn't rebuke the non theists on the thread for doing the very thing you complained about the theists doing. You can note the bias and be honest with yourself about it Pat or you can insult me, dismiss my observation as invalid or whatever. My post was not to attack you but to give you an unbiased (and yes unsolicited) explanation as to why you aren't taken as seriously as you say you want to be. Nothing more. Nothing less.

If you look at the early posts on the first pages, there are people who posted completely irrelevant, adolescent comments that were just aimed at derailing the thread with no actual arguments about ANYTHING, off topic or otherwise.

Yup, I noticed that.

Try to get it right or have a clue what’s going on before you make a post like that.

I haven’t complained about posts that have gone off topic. For example, Catholicity went off about the importance of Yahweh’s rules. That’s fine. I have no problem with that. It’s gratuitous insults and mockery when there is no argument that I complained about.


That fact that you don’t bother to find out what’s actually going on and make a post complaining about me out of pure ignorance actually shows YOUR bias, not mine.


If this was “honest” and “sincere” you would have taken the time to see what’s really going on instead of ranting off the top of your head out of ignorance. Check out posts # 2 and 3 for proper examples of the kind of post I actually complained about.

You should think about why you’ve been “bothered” by something “all throughout” the thread when you don’t even understand what you’ve mistakenly been bothered about.

Did you not even see Glenn P’s post above where he reprimanded Manwe Sulimo and Catholicity for such empty, merely mocking posts? See, he actually bothered to look at what the issue was. I suggest in the future you at least do that so that you don’t make such ignorant posts.

The rest of this rant I'll simply respond by suggesting that you take note that I amen'd Glenn's mod comment. I did understand and still understand what I'm bothered about. I was bothered when the theists derailed the thread. I was just as bothered when the non theists did so. It's called, being consistent, Pat. Right is right and wrong is wrong whether the person is my friend, enemy, agrees with me, or not.

[Xmansmommy]

I don’t remember anywhere in the Bible where it says demons have a larynx. Can you give me an example of a Bible passage that you’re talking about where a demon speaks?

I'm surprised you asked this question considering you started this thread.

Mark 8:31

And the demons begged him, saying, “If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs.”

Mark 1:34

And he healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons. And he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.

Luke 4:33-34

And in the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice, “Ha! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.”

Luke 4:41

And demons also came out of many, crying, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.

Now we can speculate and say that the demon used the human being's larynx to talk (which I'm not opposed to accepting) but we don't absolutely know that this is the case. I would note though that if you're going to be that literal in your approach to this apsect of these stories, then to be consistent you would have to take the literal approach to the demons drowning...something you seem to be quite uninterested in.

[yo lunch]

I'm surprised you asked this question considering you started this thread.

Mark 8:31

And the demons begged him, saying, “If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs.”

Mark 1:34

And he healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons. And he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.

Luke 4:33-34

And in the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice, “Ha! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.”

Luke 4:41

And demons also came out of many, crying, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.

Now we can speculate and say that the demon used the human being's larynx to talk (which I'm not opposed to accepting) but we don't absolutely know that this is the case. I would note though that if you're going to be that literal in your approach to this apsect of these stories, then to be consistent you would have to take the literal approach to the demons drowning...something you seem to be quite uninterested in.

Just curious...does God have a voice box too? After all, we were made in his image and He did do a lot of speaking in the OT but fell mute in the NT and resorted to just visions and dreams and using angels to speak for Him..

[Xmansmommy]

Just curious...does God have a voice box too?

I don't know.

After all, we were made in his image and He did do a lot of speaking in the OT but fell mute in the NT and resorted to just visions and dreams and using angels to speak for Him..

And on Pentecost He poured out the Holy Spirit. Doesn't really matter much to me but I know He speaks. I don't believe God's ever been mute though He seems to be selective in whom He chooses to directly speak with. You'd have to ask Him these questions because He would be the one to know. It may be that He'll answer you.

[Cybelle Hawke]

CH, you said something about me what was untrue. It’s not “inappropriate” to correct your mistake. Honest people would realize that they’d gotten something wrong, apologize, and move on. Why didn’t you?


What?? This is now the third time I’ve asked you what question you thought I’d missed on purpose so that I could answer it. I keep asking for the question and you don’t tell me. What kind of a weirdo are you? Why not just give me the question. I keep telling you I’m more than happy to answer it but I can’t if I don’t know what it is. Sheesh!


Complaining that I haven’t answered a question and then not giving me the question doesn’t “push my buttons” it just frustrates me because I’m trying to respond to you in earnest but you’re making it difficult.


Well clearly Jesus was at least a part time exorcist. I don’t know of anyone in history that exercised as many demons as the NT writers claim Jesus did. And you’re right; the story is set back in a time of ignorance about psychiatry. The problem is that Jesus should not be restricted by man’s knowledge of psychiatric issues back then. Don’t you think a god should know at least what 21st century psychiatrists know?

Well that’s how YOU chose to interpret it. It’s easier that way because you don’t have to deal with the problem of what happened to the demons after the pigs died. The issue I’ve outlined is that no scenario you can come up with make sense of this problem and clearly you’ve been unable to achieve this too. That was actually what’s been at issue. That’s the problem I was inquiring about. You’ve simply demonstrated that you can’t make sense of it either.

Thanks for proving my point.


Again, I’m still waiting for you to explain what you mean by asking me to “Define evil spirits in medical terms”. It’s thankfully not part of medical terminology so I don’t know what you mean by this. It seems like a stalling tactic since you don’t want to answer the question as to whether or not deafness and muteness are still sometimes caused by “evil spirits” today.


I don’t remember you telling me where the demons went. Perhaps you could refresh my memory.

*sigh* Just tell me what you think this passage has to do with this story.

I refer to my posts. Have nothing more to add. Meanwhile do not flatter yourself with the idea that you refuted.

[yo lunch]

I don't know.



And on Pentecost He poured out the Holy Spirit. Doesn't really matter much to me but I know He speaks. I don't believe God's ever been mute though He seems to be selective in whom He chooses to directly speak with. You'd have to ask Him these questions because He would be the one to know. It may be that He'll answer you.

I asked those questions to make you think about what you post and how they don't rank very high on the logical scale. Fact is, God has never answered anyone, people just think that He did. Problem is, nobody can make him manifest. The God of the Bible is an impossibility.

[shadowmaster]

I asked those questions to make you think about what you post and how they don't rank very high on the logical scale. Fact is, God has never answered anyone, people just think that He did. Problem is, nobody can make him manifest. The God of the Bible is an impossibility.

The only impossibility on Theogyweb is getting the lunch to think coherently.

[Xmansmommy]

I asked those questions to make you think about what you post and how they don't rank very high on the logical scale. Fact is, God has never answered anyone, people just think that He did. Problem is, nobody can make him manifest. The God of the Bible is an impossibility.

I am not going to challenge your view here but I certainly disagree respectfully. And I'd like to think that I do my best to think logically. I'm sure I fail in some areas but I'm not alone in that. Regardless of how well you think you do, I'm sure you fail as well.

[yo lunch]

The only impossibility on Theogyweb is getting the lunch to think coherently.

Well hello Shadow! Glad to have you come out of the shadows! Now, say something pertinent and quit trolling.

[yo lunch]

I am not going to challenge your view here but I certainly disagree respectfully. And I'd like to think that I do my best to think logically. I'm sure I fail in some areas but I'm not alone in that. Regardless of how well you think you do, I'm sure you fail as well.

Touche'!

[Pitchforkpat]

Now we can speculate and say that the demon used the human being's larynx to talk (which I'm not opposed to accepting) but we don't absolutely know that this is the case.

Of course, this is what I would respond and it’s perfectly consistent with disputing your idea that demons have their own larynx or that they were killed due to a lack of oxygen to the brain.

Since you seem to want to presume that demons have fully functioning organs, do you think they need to defecate? Do you think they defecated inside the man, all thousands of them? See how silly this gets?

I would note though that if you're going to be that literal in your approach to this apsect of these stories, then to be consistent you would have to take the literal approach to the demons drowning...something you seem to be quite uninterested in.

Not at all. It doesn’t say anywhere that the demons drowned. It only says the pigs drowned. It’s YOU who is trying to assert that the demons drowned with them. A literal approach to the story doesn’t mean that I have to assume that demons are mortal and can be killed. Like mossrose has said, you’re way off on the notion that demons can be drowned or killed at all. They’re former angels and not mortal beings.

I’m actually being consistent and, unless you want to tell me that demons need to defecate, it’s YOU who is not being consistent, something you like to falsely accuse others of being and think you don’t have to conform to that most basic of standards yourself.

[Pitchforkpat]

I understood full well what you were complaining about, Pat. I didn't suggest you were complaining about the topic moving in different directions. My complaint was that you didn't rebuke the non theists on the thread for doing the very thing you complained about the theists doing.

Usually, when an intelligent person makes a mistake and is called on it, he/she realizes it, apologizes, and moves on. They normally don’t compound their mistake by continuing to stick to a position when they don’t even understand what’s gone on.

Here was my initial complaint:

Please do not try to derail the thread with frivolous adolescent comments. There may be people interested in actual responses. Thank you

There’s no “bias” there. It wasn’t specific to theists and it would have applied to ANYONE who wanted to do this.

I can only imagine you were talking about Yo Lunch, but here was his initial comment:

Might I also add a couple of more questions?

1. Did Jesus compensate the farmer for his losses?

He wasn’t just getting on to mock my character or anyone else’s without offering some kind of argument. He made a perfectly salient comment, adding to the problem of this story.

The other thing he did was to come to my defense and respond to Christians who were doing the deliberate derailing.

Here was Manwe Sulimo’s typical empty twit comment:

See, dear, the problem is you're not a serious seeker of truth, therefore you don't deserve a serious answer. Do you understand?

To which Yo Lunch responded:

So go somewhere else!

I actually appreciated this attempt to stop Christians doing this adolescent, petulant nonsense.

The only other thing he did, AFAICT, was to respond to Mountain Man’s inane, empty derailing comment, with a parody of Manwe Sulimo’s “poetic” ad hominems, in essence telling MM to go in the corner and be quiet too.

That’s nothing like what certain Christians had been trying to do to this thread. There’s no “bias” in my complaints at all. You just didn’t know what you’re talking about and misspoke out of ignorance.

You can note the bias and be honest with yourself about it Pat or you can insult me, dismiss my observation as invalid or whatever.

I should be insulting your intelligence and integrity a lot more for being such a benighted dolt about this, but I think your original comments at the start of the thread were, at least, sincere which is more than I can say for the childish Christians who tried to derail the thread.

. I did understand and still understand what I'm bothered about.

No you didn’t and you don’t. It’s time to be man enough to admit you got it wrong. I even mentioned in one of my reported threads that once the original derailing posts had been removed, to remove all the others, including those that had responded to the mischievous posts.

It's called, being consistent, Pat. Right is right and wrong is wrong whether the person is my friend, enemy, agrees with me, or not.

I would be just as upset with any non-theist who did the same thing to an atheists thread, but Yo Lunch’s coming to my defense and agreeing that these adolescent twits should just stay off the thread is NOT an example of this.

Now, let’s see if you have the integrity to admit you were wrong. I’ll be waiting.

[yo lunch]

Of course, this is what I would respond and it’s perfectly consistent with disputing your idea that demons have their own larynx or that they were killed due to a lack of oxygen to the brain.

Since you seem to want to presume that demons have fully functioning organs, do you think they need to defecate? Do you think they defecated inside the man, all thousands of them? See how silly this gets?


Not at all. It doesn’t say anywhere that the demons drowned. It only says the pigs drowned. It’s YOU who is trying to assert that the demons drowned with them. A literal approach to the story doesn’t mean that I have to assume that demons are mortal and can be killed. Like mossrose has said, you’re way off on the notion that demons can be drowned or killed at all. They’re former angels and not mortal beings.

I’m actually being consistent and, unless you want to tell me that demons need to defecate, it’s YOU who is not being consistent, something you like to falsely accuse others of being and think you don’t have to conform to that most basic of standards yourself.

Please, the image of 2000 demons excreting fecal matter is just too much!

[Sea of red]

The only impossibility on Theogyweb is getting the lunch to think coherently.

Or getting you to make sense when you write.

Now go back into the shadows and reactivate one of your troll accounts.