Idol worship and sacrifice

[Tanakh Keeper]

Jews that take on this man-made practice are idol worshipping....which is absolutely no different than Muslims going to mecca, walking around the kabba, praying and kissing a black stone.

No where in the Tankh does it ever say to write prayers on paper and stuff them into cracks in a wall.

Yahweh had specific instructions - and this was never one of them.


Modern Jews which practice this are reverting back to idol worship which their ancestors repeatedly did over, and over, and over....they still don't get it.

As Christians, we can pray whereever, whenever, and in any direction - because our God cannot be limited to any physical thing.

Bowman, making a written prayer to G-d has nothing to do with idols. We don't pray to the wall. Have you ever heard a Jew say "Oh Wall, please heal my loved ones" or "Wall, please watch over me". The wall is only a mechanism to offer written prayers to G-d. Idol worshippers offers prayers to created objects with a physical form. Such as offering prayers to statues, pictures, or a man.

I agree G-d had specific instructions, the most oft repeated one was forbidding idol worship. Do you know of any religion that offers prayers to a being that has the shape of a man?

[Bowman]

Do you know of any religion that offers prayers to a being that has the shape of a man?

Yahweh in the flesh is what Christianity is all about, brother.

Your Tanakh states that Yahweh came in the flesh numerous times - Yahweh is even described as a man upon the Throne, with loins and all!

And yet....you still deny your maker.

Like your ancestors, you would rather continue to pray to idols rather than directly to God.

2,000 years have passed, and you still don't know Jesus.

You have rejected God in the flesh....what now do you have....?

Nothing.

[Cybelle Hawke]

I don't understand your question. How does making written prayers to G-d equate to worshipping a man?

What I was trying to say was:

if you do not consider putting the papers in the Western Wall of "directing worship t a physical form" [which came to my mind when reading your post], what would you then consider it to be.... and I asked if you could give me an example..... which you did, I suppose,
by replacing the words 'physical form' by 'man' or ' statue' [in another post]

So now I understand better what you mean, as you hold the position that Jesus of Nazareth, in your opinion merely a man, cannot be prayed to without committing the sin of idoltry. Correct?

[Cybelle Hawke]

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[FONT=Times New Roman]As Christians, we can pray whereever, whenever, and in any direction - because our God cannot be limited to any physical thing.

Our God.....??????

How dare you!

There is but one G-d and that is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

It is that G-d that Jesus of Nazareth, my Saviour, His Son, addresses to as Father.

[Bowman]

Our God.....??????

How dare you!

There is but one G-d and that is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

It is that G-d that Jesus of Nazareth, my Saviour, His Son, addresses to as Father.

Read your scriptures, sister.

Jesus said point-blank in the NT that the Father of the Jews was the devil, himself.

Clearly, Jews do not worship the Triune God of Christians.

[Hamster]

I obviously don't agree that worshiping Christ is idolatry, but saying that what Jews do at the wailing wall is also idolatry is a bit of a stretch.

[Cybelle Hawke]

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Jesus said point-blank in the NT that the Father of the Jews was the devil, himself.

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Silly, silly creature!

Do not you know that Jesus Himself is a Jew?

[Bowman]

I obviously don't agree that worshiping Christ is idolatry, but saying that what Jews do at the wailing wall is also idolatry is a bit of a stretch.

Jews don't have the Son, brother.

Therefore, they do not have eternal life.

Therefore, they worship something other than the true Biblical God.

Jesus, Himself, said that Jews' father was the devil.

What else needs to be said?

[Tanakh Keeper]

Clearly, Jews do not worship the Triune God of Christians.

Amen!!

[Tanakh Keeper]

Yahweh in the flesh is what Christianity is all about.

Yes, a perfect example of idolatry. Worshipping a being with a physical form.

[jo7241974]

Idol worship is a practice in which one worships a physical form, instead of the creator of the physical form. Idolatry came about because ancient people recognized that they were dependent on a higher power. They knew they had to rely on a controlling heavenly force, though they were unsure whether there was a single power or a multiplicity of powers. Regardless, they still constructed idol(s) that represented in physical form, the higher power(s) in which they believed. G-d knows that humans, as physical beings, have an urge to show devotion to physical objects. Idolatry is a counterfeit attempt to satisfy the basic human need to connect to a dimension beyond ourselves. Idolaters labels as “gods” people or objects, and then attempt to use them to get salvation and comfort. These created things with a physical presence are more controllable than an all-powerful G-d that is in all places at all times. However, ultimate freedom can never be found in denial. To experience true freedom, we must seek out the authentic values and meanings for which all humans desperately want, which is the One Creator.

Sacrifices are an outgrowth of our drive to serve and worship a higher power. As we are physical beings, we are driven to show our passion to higher powers with physical gifts. Indeed the true meaning of the Hebrew word for sacrifice is “closeness”. This is why the admonitions and prohibitions against idol worship are the single most common warning that G-d tells us. E.g. D e u t 5:8 You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness which is in the heavens above, which is on the earth below, or which is in the water beneath the earth. To direct worship to a physical form is a type of rebellion against the Creator. G-d is always present at all times, prayers can always be directed to Him instead of wasting worship towards physical forms. To worship an image or likeness is to assign powers to that person or object. D e u t 5:7 You shall not have the gods of others in My presence. Also to temper the human need for devotion to higher powers and to properly guide the closeness that we want to feel to the authentic source, G-d prohibited sacrifices unless they are given at the Temple, under proper guidance from our leaders. His Laws help us to focus our sacrifices on the Creator, instead of on a creation.

May I offer an observation? God would be particularly angry with the Hebrews when they did build idols to worship (for instance, the golden calf while Moses was away receiving the Ten Commandments) because they KNEW who God was. They know they are God's chosen. Yet some were always forgetting their traditions; most often through the influence of other peoples who did not know who God was. The pagans created images to worship because they recognized that there must be a power greater than themselves merely by seeing the world around them. However, since they were unlearned about the true God, i.e., the God of Abraham; they built their own. Since the Hebrews knew better than to turn FROM the true God in order to worship graven images, they gained God's wrath quickly.

It is interesting to read how Paul, when he went to preach the Gospel message to the Greeks (who were pagans), pointed to their graven images in order to help them understand what he was teaching. He recognized that they already had figured out there must be a god(s) - but they didn't know WHO or WHERE he was. Since they already believed there was a greater power, it must have been easier for Paul to convert them. They just needed to be taught WHO their God was.

The sacrifices which the people were taught to bring to God in the Temple are a type for Christ. As such, they are a form of worship to the God of Abraham; but the sacrifices are not worshipped themselves. Rather, they are a manifestation of keeping the commandments which God has given. The Bible teaches us that when Jesus died, the curtains that surrounded the Holiest of Holies were rent from top to bottom. This was symbolic in that the ultimate sacrifice had just been made. It is my understanding that once the Temple was destroyed in 70AD that there have been no sacrifices because there is no longer a Temple where sacrifices can be made. However, the Jewish people are anxious to be able to rebuild the Temple so that sacrifices can once more be offered. Is this correct?

Best regards,

jo

[jo7241974]

Bowman;3193268]Jews that take on this man-made practice are idol worshipping....which is absolutely no different than Muslims going to mecca, walking around the kabba, praying and kissing a black stone.

It appears to me that the "cross" is often treated very much the same way, also, lighting candles when offering prayers to God, and repeating man-written creeds like mantras during worship services. These three practices are time-honored traditions within much of Christendom. I don't see that you have very much room to be critical of what the Jewish are doing. No where in the Bible are these traditions taught; they are all man-made.

No where in the Tankh does it ever say to write prayers on paper and stuff them into cracks in a wall.

Pilgrimages are made all of the time by Christians to visit the Holy Land - not to worship it, but because they are drawn to the physical birth and the physical death places of the most important common factor which they share in their lives: Jesus Christ. This does not equate into worshipping these places.

Modern Jews which practice this are reverting back to idol worship which their ancestors repeatedly did over, and over, and over....they still don't get it.

"Modern" Jews? The Jewish people worship the God of Abraham - the same as they did in the OT. This has not changed. When Jesus came in the flesh, the Jews never stopped worshipping or believilng in God. They still worship the God they have always recognized as the God of Abraham. They just do not recognize that Jesus is the Son of Almighty God, or that Jesus is their Savior. However, this will be rectified in the end times. If God had not blinded them when they failed to recognize Jesus, WE would not have received the opportunity of Christ being taught to us. God, in His Mercy, is offering salvation to all of mankind.

BTW, the reason "they still don't get it" is because God has blinded them. Some here and there are able to see beyond that blindness and are able to accept Jesus. God is still their God. I daresay that if God blinds you to understanding something, then you really don't have a lot of choice in the matter. In addition, it is NOT our place to judge, AND we are to love others. When we are commanded to love "others", I do not see where ANYONE was excluded from those we are to love.

As Christians, we can pray whereever, whenever, and in any direction - because our God cannot be limited to any physical thing.

I don't see where the Jews have limited themselves as to where they can pray, either. You seem awfully proud and puffed up even though you call yourself Christian. Do you think you are better than the Jew?

Best regards,

jo

[Bowman]

Amen!!

The authors of the Tanakh were Trinitarian.

[Bowman]

Yes, a perfect example of idolatry. Worshipping a being with a physical form.

As told to us in the Tanakh.

[Bowman]

It appears to me that the "cross" is often treated very much the same way, also, lighting candles when offering prayers to God, and repeating man-written creeds like mantras during worship services. These three practices are time-honored traditions within much of Christendom. I don't see that you have very much room to be critical of what the Jewish are doing. No where in the Bible are these traditions taught; they are all man-made.

Since you are LDS what ground do you have to stand on, sister?

Everything that you believe in is man-made.

Even planet Kolob.

"Modern" Jews? The Jewish people worship the God of Abraham - the same as they did in the OT. This has not changed.

Wrong.

Jews worship the devil, as told to us by Jesus in the NT.

When Jesus came in the flesh, the Jews never stopped worshipping or believilng in God. They still worship the God they have always recognized as the God of Abraham. They just do not recognize that Jesus is the Son of Almighty God, or that Jesus is their Savior.

Your knowledge of Biblical scripture is very poor, sister.

When Jesus came to them, some believed in Him, others did not. The ones that believed in Him turned from their father the devil and took Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Thus...if Jews had been believing in the correct God all along then why would some change to believe in Jesus while others (even today) reject Him outright?

However, this will be rectified in the end times.

How so?

If God had not blinded them when they failed to recognize Jesus, WE would not have received the opportunity of Christ being taught to us. God, in His Mercy, is offering salvation to all of mankind.

The Son is taught all through the OT, sister.

Why did the Jews and Hebrews repeatedly disobey God?

BTW, the reason "they still don't get it" is because God has blinded them. Some here and there are able to see beyond that blindness and are able to accept Jesus. God is still their God. I daresay that if God blinds you to understanding something, then you really don't have a lot of choice in the matter. In addition, it is NOT our place to judge, AND we are to love others. When we are commanded to love "others", I do not see where ANYONE was excluded from those we are to love.

No...the devil is their god....just as Jesus told us.

Didn't J. Smith teach this to you as well?

I don't see where the Jews have limited themselves as to where they can pray, either. You seem awfully proud and puffed up even though you call yourself Christian. Do you think you are better than the Jew?

You should become a Jew yourself, sister.....since you think nothing is wrong with their theology...