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Thread: The Qur'an confirms past revelations

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    tWebber
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    The Qur'an confirms past revelations

    List compiled by Answering-Islam:

    We will be using the A.J. Arberry translation of the Quran for the most part, and will note when a translation other than his is being used.

    And believe in that I have sent down, confirming that which IS with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me. S. 2:41

    And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers. S. 2:89 Shakir

    And when they were told, 'Believe in that God has sent down,' they said, 'We believe in what was sent down on us'; and they disbelieve in what is beyond that, yet it is the truth confirming what IS with them. Say: 'Why then were you slaying the Prophets of God in former time, if you were believers?' S. 2:91

    Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel -- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which IS before it and guidance and good news for the believers. S. 2:97 Shakir

    And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. S. 2:101 Shakir

    He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. S. 3:3 Khalifa

    And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what IS with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.' S. 3:81

    You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming what IS with you, before We obliterate faces, and turn them upon their backs, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-men, and God's command is done. S. 4:47

    And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what IS before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed; S. 5:48 Shakir

    And this is a Book We have revealed, blessed, verifying that which IS before it, and that you may warn the metropolis and those around her; and those who believe in the hereafter believe in it, and they attend to their prayers constantly. S. 6:92 Shakir

    This Koran could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of the Book, wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being. S. 10:37

    In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe. S. 12:111

    And that We have revealed to thee of the Book is the truth, confirming what IS before it; God is aware of and sees His servants. S. 35:31

    No indeed; but he brought the truth, and confirmed the Envoys. S. 37:37

    Yet before it was the Book of Moses for a model and a mercy; and this is a Book confirming, in Arabic tongue, to warn the evildoers, and good tidings to the good-doers. S. 46:12

    They said: O our people! we have listened to a Book revealed after Musa verifying that which IS before it, guiding to the truth and to a right path: S. 46:30 Shakir

    Since our manuscripts predate Islam by several hundred years, the Qur'an is confirming what we have in our hands.

    The problem is that in fact, the Qur'an does not confirm what it claims to confirm; in fact, it contradicts what we have in our hands.

  2. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Of course, since the Qur'an confirms past revelations, it means that the Qur'an confirms the death and resurrection of the Messiah, Jesus.

  4. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    so is it Koran or Quran or Qur'an or what?

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    so is it Koran or Quran or Qur'an or what?
    Yes

    I'm always still in trouble again

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    so is it Koran or Quran or Qur'an or what?
    It is pronounced Quraan. Long a's. Qwar awn.

  8. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    so is it Koran or Quran or Qur'an or what?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Yes
    Personally I'm partial to "what".

  10. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    List compiled by Answering-Islam:

    We will be using the A.J. Arberry translation of the Quran for the most part, and will note when a translation other than his is being used.

    And believe in that I have sent down, confirming that which IS with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me. S. 2:41

    And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers. S. 2:89 Shakir

    And when they were told, 'Believe in that God has sent down,' they said, 'We believe in what was sent down on us'; and they disbelieve in what is beyond that, yet it is the truth confirming what IS with them. Say: 'Why then were you slaying the Prophets of God in former time, if you were believers?' S. 2:91

    Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel -- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which IS before it and guidance and good news for the believers. S. 2:97 Shakir

    And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. S. 2:101 Shakir

    He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. S. 3:3 Khalifa

    And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what IS with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.' S. 3:81

    You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming what IS with you, before We obliterate faces, and turn them upon their backs, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-men, and God's command is done. S. 4:47

    And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what IS before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed; S. 5:48 Shakir

    And this is a Book We have revealed, blessed, verifying that which IS before it, and that you may warn the metropolis and those around her; and those who believe in the hereafter believe in it, and they attend to their prayers constantly. S. 6:92 Shakir

    This Koran could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of the Book, wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being. S. 10:37

    In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe. S. 12:111

    And that We have revealed to thee of the Book is the truth, confirming what IS before it; God is aware of and sees His servants. S. 35:31

    No indeed; but he brought the truth, and confirmed the Envoys. S. 37:37

    Yet before it was the Book of Moses for a model and a mercy; and this is a Book confirming, in Arabic tongue, to warn the evildoers, and good tidings to the good-doers. S. 46:12

    They said: O our people! we have listened to a Book revealed after Musa verifying that which IS before it, guiding to the truth and to a right path: S. 46:30 Shakir

    Since our manuscripts predate Islam by several hundred years, the Qur'an is confirming what we have in our hands.

    The problem is that in fact, the Qur'an does not confirm what it claims to confirm; in fact, it contradicts what we have in our hands.
    Just to play devil's advocate.

    It could be argued, that the bits of the NT that agree with the Koran are genuine, and the bits that don't, aren't. For Islam, the NT seems to be limited to the Gospels - perhaps to the first 3. A purely human, if miraculous, Jesus is much easier to construct as the Koranic 'Isa if the other 24 books of the NT don't count.

    Nothing in those 3 Gospels absolutely requires Jesus to be a Divine figure. A NT that includes St Paul and St John, by contrast, is much harder to understand as revealing a mere man, however miraculous. If the last 24 books of the NT have an OK text but are corrupt in their message, then the Muslim apologetic looks a bit more persuasive. The corruption of the text, or lack of it, is not important if the message is what is corrupt. The textual excellence of a book is of no consequence, if the message conveyed is a trainwreck. A perfectly edited and printed copy of Mein Kampf is still a trainwreck, however perfect its correspondence to its author's intentions, & however faultless the editing.

    And that seems to be what bothers Muslim apologists about the NT message - it is no longer what Jesus taught. This is presumably why Muslims dismiss St Paul, and why they rely on a lot of 19th-century liberal Protestant scholarship, rather than something more recent. The Christian apologist needs to show that the entire NT is not only preserved textually in a way that is sufficiently reliable to show what the authors wrote; he also needs to show that the ideas in it are in accord, both with each other, and with its earliest stage: that is, with what Jesus said, and meant.

    IMHO, one of the keys to the NT is the "Kingdom/Reign/Kingship of God/Heaven". That Jesus is King is particularly clear in St Matthew, St Luke, and St John. And in the much-despised St Paul. ISTM that the Righteousness of God, His action as Saviour and Redeemer, and the importance of social justice, are all features of the Davidic King of Psalm 72, whose Kingdom is universal, and, like that of the Messiah in Dan. 7.14, is unending. Muslims admit that 'Isa is called "al-Masih", the Messiah.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    Just to play devil's advocate.

    <snip>

    Nothing in those 3 Gospels absolutely requires Jesus to be a Divine figure. . . .

    <snip>
    Psalm 14:3,
    . . . [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one. . . .



    Mark 10:18,
    . . . And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God. . . .


    Jesus the son of Mary being a man.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  13. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Christians probably find the degree of difference with Muslims larger than Muslims do....
    ---Christians and Muslims both believe in One God---the nature of God is different (Christians have a "complex unity")---however, if Christians leave the explanations of this complex composition as "mystery" it solves much of the problem because then the emphasis shifts to "One God"....
    ---Christians and Muslim both believe Jesus Christ performed miracles, was highly knowledgeable and had a high degree of spirituality, both also accept that he was human/had human nature---if the particulars of Jesus Christs "spirituality" are left as a mystery, this then shifts the emphasis to his message and this can bring more in common with Muslims (who also place an emphasis on the principles of Justice, Compassion, Mercy)
    ---Christians and Muslims both believe in Judgement Day---some Christians feel God will save only Christians (and some Muslims claim the same for Muslims) But the Quran strongly advocates that Judgement is a prerogative of God and no one can decide/judge except God---therefore, if both Christians and Muslims leave this aspect as something God knows best, then it becomes easier to see common ehtico-moral principles with which both can work together to build a better world.
    But why should Christians do so?...
    Trinity can be misunderstood and can lead to tri-theism which is Shirk in Islam and heresy (?) in Christianity...
    Divine Incarnation can lead to pantheism which could be misunderstood as idolatry---something both Christians and Muslim condemn
    Condemning others to hell can lead to the arrogance of "chosen people", which undermines the concept that all humanity is of equivalent worth under God---Justice cannot flourish without this principle.
    From a Muslim perspective---one could say the Quran is only trying to prevent Christians (and Muslims) from going on the wrong path by warning them of doctrines that can be easily misunderstood...?.

  15. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Psalm 14:3,
    . . . [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one. . . .



    Mark 10:18,
    . . . And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God. . . .


    Jesus the son of Mary being a man.
    Very appropriate. Thanks.

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