More Leftist Intolerance....

[Faber]

We are not Israel.

No, but God is God. And idols are idols. He hated idols then, and He still does.

[KingsGambit]

Here's where I get myself into a little bit of trouble.

Jefferson Davis was (and still is?) an enemy of the United States of America.

And although I in now way respect the religion of Islam, Buddha statues are idols, and God commanded the children of Israel to destroy those idols.

I don't disagree with you. Idolatry seems to be among the worst sins, if not the worst, in the Bible. Of course, that doesn't mean that Christians are free to go around willy nilly smashing statues around town (Paul didn't do that when he was looking at idols at the Areopagus), but at the very least it does suggest we shouldn't be outraged when Muslim governments do it.]

(Incidentally, James Meredith, who was the first black student to attend Ole Miss in the 60s, was upset when the campus later put a statue of him on campus. He is a devout Christian and feels that statues are idolatry.)

[Starlight]

In all seriousness, this whole statue thing is pretty goofy. History is history. Leave them up.

I think it's fair to say that a public statue is in some way a celebration of the person or event which it is raised to. If the statue was in a museum that would be one thing, that would be illustrative of the person and the history, showing what the person looked like and how he was viewed at the time.

But putting it up in a public place is a celebration of the person. And by doing so, you are asking black people to walk past, on a daily basis, a celebration of a man who tried to keep their ancestors as slaves and who fought against their freedom. In celebrating such a man with a statue, the society today is making a statement of a certain kind, saying 'we approve of this person and what he was famous for', and that is a rather horrible kind of statement to be making given the black people living today in the society and the area.

Moving it to a museum seems rather self-evidently appropriate to me.

[Jedidiah]

No, but God is God. And idols are idols. He hated idols then, and He still does.

I agree, but our government is a secular one. I agree that secularism has been twisted to mean stuff it was never intended to mean, but it is the government that would have to allow such cleansing.

[Jedidiah]

I think it's fair to say that a public statue is in some way a celebration of the person or event which it is raised to. If the statue was in a museum that would be one thing, that would be illustrative of the person and the history, showing what the person looked like and how he was viewed at the time.

But putting it up in a public place is a celebration of the person. And by doing so, you are asking black people to walk past, on a daily basis, a celebration of a man who tried to keep their ancestors as slaves and who fought against their freedom. In celebrating such a man with a statue, the society today is making a statement of a certain kind, saying 'we approve of this person and what he was famous for', and that is a rather horrible kind of statement to be making given the black people living today in the society and the area.

Moving it to a museum seems rather self-evidently appropriate to me.

Whine, whine, whine.

[Starlight]

Whine, whine, whine.

An appropriate response to Seer for creating the OP.

[Tassman]

I think it's fair to say that a public statue is in some way a celebration of the person or event which it is raised to. If the statue was in a museum that would be one thing, that would be illustrative of the person and the history, showing what the person looked like and how he was viewed at the time.

But putting it up in a public place is a celebration of the person. And by doing so, you are asking black people to walk past, on a daily basis, a celebration of a man who tried to keep their ancestors as slaves and who fought against their freedom. In celebrating such a man with a statue, the society today is making a statement of a certain kind, saying 'we approve of this person and what he was famous for', and that is a rather horrible kind of statement to be making given the black people living today in the society and the area.

Moving it to a museum seems rather self-evidently appropriate to me.

It's the same issue as that of displaying the Confederate flag, namely the association with racism and hatred. Both need to be removed from public property because they are an affront to African Americans.

[Tassman]

Whine, whine, whine.

Such a well thought out response...clearly reasoned and convincing.

[tabibito]

I don't disagree with you. Idolatry seems to be among the worst sins, if not the worst, in the Bible. Of course, that doesn't mean that Christians are free to go around willy nilly smashing statues around town (Paul didn't do that when he was looking at idols at the Areopagus), but at the very least it does suggest we shouldn't be outraged when Muslim governments do it.]

(Incidentally, James Meredith, who was the first black student to attend Ole Miss in the 60s, was upset when the campus later put a statue of him on campus. He is a devout Christian and feels that statues are idolatry.)

I tend to think that the Bible portrays sin as idolatry.
"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:" Coloss 3:5
though it is true that idolatry is listed as a sin in its own right
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-20

[seer]

An appropriate response to Seer for creating the OP.

Why, I'm just demonstrating how leftists make common cause with Jihadists.

[Sparko]

It's the same issue as that of displaying the Confederate flag, namely the association with racism and hatred. Both need to be removed from public property because they are an affront to African Americans.

As an Australian I doubt you even understand the social implications of the confederate flag. This is not a black vs white thing. It is a conservative v liberal and a yankee v southerner thing. Mostly the latter.

There are lots of blacks living in the south that are proud of the confederate flag. It is not a racist thing at all.

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[seer]

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No, they must be his slaves...

[guacamole]

And then the cancer that is the alt-right rears it's ugly head:

http://www.nbc29.com/story/35422510/...orters-at-park

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (WVIR) -
Tensions were high in Charlottesville’s Jackson Park Saturday afternoon as protesters against the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue took on supporters.

"No reason why we can't celebrate the history that has brought us to the glorious future that we are emboldened in now,” protester Orry Von Dize said

Charlottesville's Jackson park filled with protesters determined to protect what they call their "white heritage."

"We're not white supremacists. We are simply just white people that love our heritage, our culture, our European identity,” Von Dize said.

Hundreds voiced their opposition to Charlottesville City Council's vote to remove the Lee statue in Lee Park. They don't want the Jackson monument to be next.

"I'm here to take part in this great celebration of our heritage and to say 'no' to the city of Charlottesville. You're not going to tear down our statue and you're not going to replace us," Richard Spencer said.

Self-identified “alt-right” member Richard Spencer said the protesters are peaceful.

"Nobody here is committing violence. This is a peaceful demonstration. We're talking about who we are and what we care about," Spencer said.

Others disagreed.

"I feel as though their saying the same thing over and over again and they're not here for conversation," statue-removal supporter Andrea Rowland said.

Arguments and a scuffle broke out quickly in Jackson Park once people opposed to the Confederate heritage supporters arrived.

Police soon got involved.

Both sides left frustrated by the end of it all and are unsure of what comes next.

"It's an expression of force. It's an expression of occupying a space," Spencer said.

While police did get involved toward the end of the protest, no arrests were made.

The statues should stay because they are history, a reminder of the ugliness of our nation's past.

fwiw,
guacamole

[seer]

And then the cancer that is the alt-right rears it's ugly head:


fwiw,
guacamole

What is wrong with celebrating their European heritage and identity?

[guacamole]

What is wrong with celebrating their European heritage and identity?

Don't be daft. It doesn't suit you.