The problem and myths of Calcium, diet and suppliments

[Sparko]

I am still waiting for a clear concise expression of the actual argument.

"Dairy bad."

I think.

[shunyadragon]

*emphasis mine


Just asking for clarification here because I'm not sure I am following this correctly. Were the articles you posted supports for this part of the argument or are you arguing that taking calcium supplements also causes health problems?

Yes. This is one source, others will be cited. The current research recommends people maintain a balenced diet without Calcium supplements. The problem is what is a balanced diet. The old food triangle high in dairy and meat protein is not recommended. What is recommended is lower meat protein, and dairy, and higher in vegetables and vegetable protein as natural Calcium sources. Also eliminate high glycemic carbs such as sugar, white flour, potatoes, white rice, and corn.

[JonathanL]

Americans have an epidemic lack of vitamin D.

That alone can be the cause of weak bones since Vitamin D is essential for Calcium to work in making new bone.

I doubt it has to do with dairy.

Here in Finland it's quite common for dairy producers to add vitamin D to the milk.

[shunyadragon]

I had to start taking D supplements when I was diagnosed and had to double them 2 years ago.

Vitamin D deficiency is most common among couch potato closet and cave dwellers in today's culture. Naturally Vitamin D is made in the skin from exposure to the sun.

As with people of the Northern latitudes the best natural source of Vitamin D is sea fish like Salmon, sardines, and Cod.

The problems of Calcium in the unbalanced diet with too much dairy and land animal protein is not directly related to Vitamin D issues. European cultures with a high incidence of osteoporosis have a relatively high consumption of sea fish like cod and sardines.

[Sparko]

Here in Finland it's quite common for dairy producers to add vitamin D to the milk.

same here.

I think the lack of vitamin D has to do with people being indoors all the time, and being deathly afraid of being in the sun and getting skin cancer. So even when they go outside they cover up, or use heavy sun block. The result is low vitamin D since your body makes it in response to sunlight.

My doctor just told me that I have low vitamin D too! and I have to start taking 2000 IU per day. My job keeps me indoors during daylight hours. And I have never been much of an outdoor guy on the weekends.

[mossrose]

Vitamin D deficiency is most common among couch potato closet and cave dwellers in today's culture. Naturally Vitamin D is made in the skin from exposure to the sun.

That is such an insulting statement.

I avoid the sun because I had several bad burns as a child and went through treatment for pre-cancerous skin issues several years ago. I've worn sunscreen when I'm outside for 40 years.

how dare you suggest that people who avoid the sun are couch potatoes and live in closets and caves?

I don't know what you are trying to point out in this thread, Frank, other than to push some sort of vegan lifestyle, so I'm out of here.

I expressed my own situation which is different from the study in your op, so there is nothing more for me to say.

[shunyadragon]

That is such an insulting statement.

I avoid the sun because I had several bad burns as a child and went through treatment for pre-cancerous skin issues several years ago. I've worn sunscreen when I'm outside for 40 years.

how dare you suggest that people who avoid the sun are couch potatoes and live in closets and caves?

I don't know what you are trying to point out in this thread, Frank, other than to push some sort of vegan lifestyle, so I'm out of here.

I expressed my own situation which is different from the study in your op, so there is nothing more for me to say.

Your taking personal my statements of a very real problem in western society that developed over the centuries. My statements are of course not a generalization that fits all people, and like yourself there are people who do not fit this unfortunate cultural problem.

Nonetheless, it is a valid description of the health problem of the prevailing diet and life style of American culture.

If you have read my posts, I never advocated a vegan diet and life style, in fact I consider the vegan diet misguided, unscientific, and unhealthy. I have only advocated a reduced dairy and animal protein, eliminate high glycemic carbs, eliminate Calcium supplements, and increase vegetables in our diet. Take an observant stroll through a supermarket some time, and you will find that 70% or more of the products are dominated by high glycemic carb content. Industry promotes it because it is the cheapest food, highest profit margin, and by the way addictive. It is the most popular legal cocaine drug of choice in America. Vitamin and supplement department most often have 50 or types of Calcium supplements.

[Sparko]

Your taking personal my statements of a very real problem in western society that developed over the centuries. My statements are of course not a generalization that fits all people, and like yourself there are people who do not fit this unfortunate cultural problem.

Nonetheless, it is a valid description of the health problem of the prevailing diet and life style of American culture.

If you have read my posts, I never advocated a vegan diet and life style, in fact I consider the vegan diet misguided, unscientific, and unhealthy. I have only advocated a reduced dairy, animal protein, high glycemic carbs, eleminate Calcium suppliments, and increased vegetables in our diet. Take stroll through a supermarket some time, and you will find that 70% or more of the products are dominated by high glycemic carb content. Industry promotes it because it is the cheapest food, and by the way addictive.

My doctor told me to eat more meat and dairy (specifically yogurt)

I think I will listen to him.

[shunyadragon]

My doctor told me to eat more meat and dairy (specifically yogurt)

I think I will listen to him.

That is your choice. I believe my research sources are valid, and there will be more good references.

As far as dairy products go fermented dairy is the best choice.

[Sparko]

That is your choice. I believe my research sources are valid, and there will be more good references.

As far as dairy products go fermented dairy is the best choice.

when it comes down to a molecular level, calcium is calcium no matter what the source.

[shunyadragon]

when it comes down to a molecular level, calcium is calcium no matter what the source.

True as the sky is Carolina blue on a clear 4th of July at noon, except there are about 12 isotopes of Calcium, but not the issue concerning problems of Calcium metabolism in humans.

[Sparko]

True as the sky is Carolina blue on a clear 4th of July at noon, except there are about 12 isotopes of Calcium, but not the issue concerning problems of Calcium metabolism in humans.

well I would think that mammal milk would contain the correct type of calcium for mammals to build bones with, since that is the purpose of having calcium in milk in the first place. Whereas, calcium in plants is made for plants to use.

[shunyadragon]

well I would think that mammal milk would contain the correct type of calcium for mammals to build bones with, since that is the purpose of having calcium in milk in the first place. Whereas, calcium in plants is made for plants to use.

Huh!?!?!?! No!

[Sparko]

Huh!?!?!?! No!

You were the one going on about how not all calcium is the same. So if there are various kinds of calcium, I would rather ingest calcium that is evolutionarily designed to build bones in mammals: milk.

[One Bad Pig]

when it comes down to a molecular level, calcium is calcium no matter what the source.

Calcium is calcium, but various forms are more easily absorbed by the body. Calcium that's naturally a part of food is generally easier to absorb than that in a supplement.