If original sin is just allegory, is jesus necessary today?

[Rational Gaze]

One fatal flaw is that even without the advent of Adam and Eve, evil was already in the world...remember Satan?

Satan is not human.

[yo lunch]

God's foreknowledge does not eliminate our freedom to choose.




God knew what Eve would choose, when faced for the first time ever with temptation. God's foreknowledge does not eliminate our freedom to choose.

If the choice is between the Devil and the deep blue sea, how is that a "choice"? Fact is, one should not have to choose at all! If Jesus died for our sins, then that should have been all there was to it! Nobody should be facing that "He that believeth not shall be damned", nonsense ! If I bail a friend out of jail, I certainly would not expect or require him to believe that I made a great sacrifice by hocking or selling my Rolex watch in order to do it. Nor would I expect him to owe me a life of servitude for doing so.

[yo lunch]

Satan is not human.

But the Bible says that sin entered the world through man and that is not true!

[yo lunch]

Ask Mossy.

Better yet, you ask Mossy and tell me what was said!

[Rational Gaze]

But the Bible says that sin entered the world through man and that is not true!

No, it doesn't. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...+3&version=NCV

[yo lunch]

Doesn't exist anymore. Remember, the Sahara used to be jungle. The Garden of Eden, was somewhere in the near/middle east, and likely suffered the same fate as the Saharahn jungle.

Please! The location of four rivers would not all turn to desert! Besides, if god thought that the place was worthy of guarding, it would not have crumbled into dust!

[yo lunch]

No, it doesn't. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...+3&version=NCV

Nice try! Now look and see what the New Testament says about how sin entered into the world!

[Rational Gaze]

Nice try! Now look and see what the New Testament says about how sin entered into the world!

The New Testament says that all humans have sinned.

[OtherCheek]

The point is that it was, according to you, Gods plan, so whether or not there were options for A+E, God did not allow for them to freely choose amongst those options else it would have contradicted his plan. You can't have it both ways, it was either Gods plan, or they were free to choose, it is impossible for it to be both.

Some people are under the notion that freedom of choice means freedom from all consequences of their choice. I would disagree with that assessment.

With every choice you make, you place yourself on a path that closes some choices and opens other choices. Some consequences are natural. Such as choosing to get a girl pregnant, whether she is your wife, or not, both lead to consequences that you don't have control over. And immediately you find yourself on a path of subsequent choices with attendant consequences from which you cannot reverse course. Some consequences are imposed on us. Being cast out of the Garden of Eden was an imposed consequence of partaking of the forbidden fruit. So was eventual death.

Similarly, when you choose to break the law, and are caught, you are placed in jail, and you are on a path that cannot be reversed. You have a whole new set of choices that you didn't have before--some good and some bad.

It works the other way, too. When you choose to make and honor your marriage vows, you have choices open up to you and blessings (good consequences) that a person who makes but then breaks those vows will never know.

When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they put themselves on an irreversible path. But at the same time, other choices and experiences and knowledge was opened up to them that they would not have otherwise known.

His foreknowledge may not eliminate our freedom to choose, although I believe that it does, but again, it is not his foreknowledge in this case that denied of them a choice, but his plan that did.

I don't see it that way at all.

The Road Less Traveled by Robert Frost

[yo lunch]

The New Testament says that all humans have sinned.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Romans 5:12

[OtherCheek]

If the choice is between the Devil and the deep blue sea, how is that a "choice"?

I believe Jesus Christ came, in part, to give us a choice that wasn't the Devil or the deep blue sea.

Fact is, one should not have to choose at all! If Jesus died for our sins, then that should have been all there was to it! Nobody should be facing that "He that believeth not shall be damned", nonsense ! If I bail a friend out of jail, I certainly would not expect or require him to believe that I made a great sacrifice by hocking or selling my Rolex watch in order to do it. Nor would I expect him to owe me a life of servitude for doing so.

Whether you want to admit it or not, you have already been choosing all of your life. And choose you must; between light and darkness. And learn you must. You cannot change that fact. That too is part of the Plan. I couldn't imagine any other way, and still believe in a perfect God.

[Rational Gaze]

Fact is, one should not have to choose at all! If Jesus died for our sins, then that should have been all there was to it!

Not really. You need to actually act on said information. You can wander into a desert with enough water to get through, and you can carry on believing that water will quench your thirst right until you drop dead because you didn't drink any of it. You need to actually drink the water to survive.

[yo lunch]

Not really. You need to actually act on said information. You can wander into a desert with enough water to get through, and you can carry on believing that water will quench your thirst right until you drop dead because you didn't drink any of it. You need to actually drink the water to survive.

It is a choice to enter the desert. It was not a choice to be born in sin as a result of the actions of another!

[OtherCheek]

It is a choice to enter the desert. It was not a choice to be born in sin as a result of the actions of another!

I believe you DID choose to come here and be born and be presented with choices. But that's another topic for another board.

And so here you are. Now, you must choose for yourself. What's so bad about having to choosing between happiness and misery?

[yo lunch]

I believe Jesus Christ came, in part, to give us a choice that wasn't the Devil or the deep blue sea.



Whether you want to admit it or not, you have already been choosing all of your life. And choose you must; between light and darkness. And learn you must. You cannot change that fact. That too is part of the Plan. I couldn't imagine any other way, and still believe in a perfect God.

Don't just turn the other cheek...turn the other side of your brain, the side that thinks logically. And, uh, remove the blinders too.