Trump gives highly classified information to the Russians

[Sparko]

They're not rumors, they're suspicions based on evidence.

what evidence? apparently the suspicions ARE the evidence with you guys.

[Charles]

what evidence? apparently the suspicions ARE the evidence with you guys.

I have clearly stated that by evidence in this case I am thinking about hints and indications. That is why it is non conclusive, not proof and it may turn out there is nothing to it. I have said all of this before.

[Sparko]

I have clearly stated that by evidence in this case I am thinking about hints and indications. That is why it is non conclusive, not proof and it may turn out there is nothing to it. I have said all of this before.

so basically you believe that suspicion is evidence.

I suspect you are a serial killer. I guess that means the possibility is good that you are one, so we should have the police start following you around and dig into your entire life until they find proof that you are, or definitive proof that you are not one. Once I get an investigation going then I can use the fact that you are being investigated for being a serial killer as further evidence that you really could be one.*


*PS this is just a made up example, if you really ARE a serial killer, I meant no offense and really don't think you are one, so please don't hunt me down and kill me. thanks.

[Mountain Man]

I have clearly stated that by evidence in this case I am thinking about hints and indications.

"Hints and indications" are not evidence.

And this is why I sincerely hope a conspiracy nut like you never ends up on a jury.

[Charles]

so basically you believe that suspicion is evidence.

I suspect you are a serial killer. I guess that means the possibility is good that you are one, so we should have the police start following you around and dig into your entire life until they find proof that you are, or definitive proof that you are not one. Once I get an investigation going then I can use the fact that you are being investigated for being a serial killer as further evidence that you really could be one.*


*PS this is just a made up example, if you really ARE a serial killer, I meant no offense and really don't think you are one, so please don't hunt me down and kill me. thanks.

Instead of using made up examples let's just focus on the fact that foreign intelligence services warned against Trump, that there is a trail of dead Russians, that people from the Trump campaign had close ties with Russians who were of interest to intelligence services in the USA, that Trump's actions give the impression of a man who is trying to hide something, that Flynn had to leave due to Russian contacts that it appears Trump tried to cover up. And so on....

In other words, it is not that there is no reason, no evidence, to jusitify further investigation into this. It is not just suspecting something with no reason whatsoever. However I allow that since it is not yet conclusive evidence it may turn out that there is nothing to it. But we will never know unless there is an investigation.

And no "suspicion" is not "evidence". The evidence I am talking about can be the cause of suspicion. The fact that many Russians associated with this investigation died is not a suspicion, it is a fact. That fact seems to justify suspicion. There is no suspicion that Trump fired Comey. He did. Based on that fact, you may have different suspicions.

I think the logic you describe has its points to it in some cases, and in other parts of the world it is unfortunately fair to assume that it is how stuff works. However regarding this case I think the example is not even close to having anything to do with what is actually happening.

[Meh Gerbil]

that there is a trail of dead Russians...

What is the theory here?
That Russians are whacking their own to cover up Russian interference in the elections?

That doesn't even make sense.
It isn't like the US Government could subpoena a Russian citizen and make him testify.

[Sparko]

Instead of using made up examples let's just focus on the fact that foreign intelligence services warned against Trump,

"warned against trump"? Warned what? Are you talking about mentioning suspicions? Basically like in the example if the police said "well we are investigating Charles for being a serial killer" and that would be evidence that you are a serial killer.

that there is a trail of dead Russians,

what trail of dead russians and how is that connected to Trump?

that people from the Trump campaign had close ties with Russians who were of interest to intelligence services in the USA,

They said that his business people went to Russia and met with people there. But that was normal business. Nothing there. No ties to his campaign, other than he later hired some of those people to be in his campaign.

that Trump's actions give the impression of a man who is trying to hide something,

suspicions again. I see nothing of the sort.

that Flynn had to leave due to Russian contacts that it appears Trump tried to cover up. And so on....

He left because he made a mistake and talked to a Russian official before he should have. He left because he didn't want to put a stain on Trump's presidency. You can see that didn't exactly work out did it. The MSM, rather than praising him for his integrity, crucified him and started more rumors.

In other words, it is not that there is no reason, no evidence, to jusitify further investigation into this.

That is exactly it. There IS no evidence. Just rumors and suspicions. NO EVIDENCE.

It is not just suspecting something with no reason whatsoever.

yes it is. You are using rumors to foster suspicions and then calling that evidence.

However I allow that since it is not yet conclusive evidence it may turn out that there is nothing to it. But we will never know unless there is an investigation.

Yeah I don't have any conclusive evidence that you are not a serial killer, but we will never know unless there is an investigation.

And no "suspicion" is not "evidence".

Bingo. Give the man a cigar.

The evidence I am talking about can be the cause of suspicion. The fact that many Russians associated with this investigation died is not a suspicion, it is a fact. That fact seems to justify suspicion. There is no suspicion that Trump fired Comey. He did. Based on that fact, you may have different suspicions.

It is all suspicions. Firing comey is not evidence of a collusion. it is innuendo. Russians dying is not evidence. I guess you think all those people in the Clinton circle are evidence that Hillary is an assassin too right?

[Mountain Man]

What is the theory here?
That Russians are whacking their own to cover up Russian interference in the elections?

That doesn't even make sense.
It isn't like the US Government could subpoena a Russian citizen and make him testify.

Or is he insinuating that Trump whacked the Russians to cover up their interference? It's hard to tell with conspiracy nuts.

[Charles]

What is the theory here?
That Russians are whacking their own to cover up Russian interference in the elections?

That doesn't even make sense.
It isn't like the US Government could subpoena a Russian citizen and make him testify.

Listen from 3.30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxNsdTsbk-c

[Sparko]

Or is he insinuating that Trump whacked the Russians to cover up their interference? It's hard to tell with conspiracy nuts.

Not only is "dead russians, so TRUMP!" the very definition of rumor mongering and jumping to conclusions, but everything I read was basically only trying to tie the deaths to "Russians interfered with the election" not "Trump colluded with the Russians" -- and even at that there was no evidence or ties to the election, and just dead russians.

[Meh Gerbil]

Listen from 3.30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxNsdTsbk-c

I've been unable to find a list of Russians supposedly involved with this case.
The list I found is of Russians who couldn't possibly be involved and were probably killed for other reasons.
See: http://www.totpi.com/trail-of-dead-russians/

I think the G-man is a quack, at least until he can produce a reasonably plausible list of actors who've been offed.
Again, the list of Russians I found doesn't produce anything like a trail.
Nobody is denying that these men were likely murdered for unrelated reasons.

[Mountain Man]

Listen from 3.30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxNsdTsbk-c

That's like the ridiculous "web of conspiracy" that Dimbulb posted once, where it had stuff like, "A man who once shined Trump's shoes was given a $2 tip by a Russian businessman. How deep does this rabbit hole go, people!"

Seriously, you guys are insane.

[Sparko]

I've been unable to find a list of Russians supposedly involved with this case.
The list I found is of Russians who couldn't possibly be involved and were probably killed for other reasons.
See: http://www.totpi.com/trail-of-dead-russians/

I think the G-man is a quack, at least until he can produce a reasonably plausible list of actors who've been offed.
Again, the list of Russians I found doesn't produce anything like a trail.
Nobody is denying that these men were likely murdered for unrelated reasons.

here is a more detailed list:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/24/europe/dead-russians/

again, nothing to tie them to Trump (or even the election) as hard as they try.

I like this one:

Russian ambassador to India dies after brief illness
Alexander Kadakin, 67, the Russian ambassador to India, died on January 26.
A spokeswoman for the Russian embassy in New Delhi said that Kadakin died after a short illness and that there was nothing "special or extraordinary" about the circumstances that led to his death.
Kadakin had worked in India since 2009. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi described him as "a great friend of India" who worked hard to strengthen relations between the two countries.

um what does an ambassador to India dying of an illness have anything to do with the election or Trump?

[Charles]

Or is he insinuating that Trump whacked the Russians to cover up their interference? It's hard to tell with conspiracy nuts.

Ad hominem.

[Mountain Man]

um what does an ambassador to India dying of an illness have anything to do with the election or Trump?

It doesn't.

(winks and knowingly taps side of nose)