What I Want Vs. What God Wants

[Sparko]

You tell me.

I already did. No it is not a sin.

In fact I think that today we have way too much of a "buddy" idea of Jesus and the Father, not having enough respect for the Maker of the Universe. He is GOD, not our pal. To me, praying to him while taking a dump is disrespectful (unless of course you are ill and need help)

[footwasher]

I think you’re onto something here only I think you’re not really phrasing correctly. Things we want to do aren’t always out of line with God’s will. In fact, if we are truly saved and have the Spirit within us, then our longing to be in God’s will at all times should be something that comes natural to us. Our sole purpose as Christians is to be in God’s will, but there is a very grey area as to what constitutes God’s will and our carnal desires and it becomes a very difficult balancing act to keep our will aligned with God’s will, and this requires persistence in the spiritual things we do as Christians, i.e. prayer, bible study, etc. This is what it means to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12), and to be on constant guard against being entrapped by the cares of this world lest we fall away like those hapless souls in the Parable of the Sower.

That's quite insightful. I've heard the teaching where it is explained that there are carnal activities, spiritual and then neutral. Neutral would be somethings like secular work, where you can work for luxuries or work to care for your family.

But Jesus said you can either worship God or Money.

And elsewhere, He said God will provide for our needs, like He provides for the lilies of the field. Is it hyperbolic?

[Carrikature]

I think you’re onto something here only I think you’re not really phrasing correctly. Things we want to do aren’t always out of line with God’s will. In fact, if we are truly saved and have the Spirit within us, then our longing to be in God’s will at all times should be something that comes natural to us. Our sole purpose as Christians is to be in God’s will, but there is a very grey area as to what constitutes God’s will and our carnal desires and it becomes a very difficult balancing act to keep our will aligned with God’s will, and this requires persistence in the spiritual things we do as Christians, i.e. prayer, bible study, etc. This is what it means to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12), and to be on constant guard against being entrapped by the cares of this world lest we fall away like those hapless souls in the Parable of the Sower.

I can agree with that. My concern is that the bolded part does not hold true for me. I know I should 'want to want to do His will', but most of the time I don't, if that makes sense.

[DaveKicks]

I already did. No it is not a sin.

In fact I think that today we have way too much of a "buddy" idea of Jesus and the Father, not having enough respect for the Maker of the Universe. He is GOD, not our pal. To me, praying to him while taking a dump is disrespectful (unless of course you are ill and need help)

Since you refuse to support your position from Scripture or engage with the scriptural support I'm providing, we're going to continue talking past each other.

_______________________________

DaveKicks,

where is your 'scriptural citation' for:

mathematics? 2 + 2 =4?

physics?

biology?

etc, you get the picture....please get back to us with those 'scriptural citations' of the above.

You have made two logic errors:

1. This is a non-sequitur. It is true that the Bible does not explicitly discuss every topic. However, it does not follow that there is no guidance to be found regarding it.

2. You are also making a classification error. The Bible doesn't instruct us regarding the mechanics of how we do anything. It instructs us regarding the way we approach them.

Are the mechanics of mathematical proofs , physics and biology discussed in the Bible? No.
Is the approach we should take towards them? Absolutely. (Already demonstrated in Col 3:17, Rom 14:23, Heb 11:6, etc - Solely for the glory of God.)

You have missed my point entirely.

[footwasher]

I can agree with that. My concern is that the bolded part does not hold true for me. I know I should 'want to want to do His will', but most of the time I don't, if that makes sense.

The pastor who taught about how some activities are neutral also taught that some people become too spiritual. This can carry over into their daily life, leading to some strange results. Some issues are a pet hobby horse of a particular leader's teaching ( and are in fact the distinguishing features of some cults). They teach a particular practice (no blood transfusion for example) based on an isolated text and ignore the context the text appears in, as well as ignoring text teaching the opposite. (I hope I'm doing an adequate job explaining myself, in this process of setting up the background).

Other leaders teach faith in God for everything, even for our daily bread and protection, forgetting Jesus Himself teaching that there were times for faith, and other times for self reliance:

35And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” 36And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. Luke 22

The pastor observed that no one can have faith for other people, that sometimes we make wrong super spiritual decisions and other people bear the brunt and have to make the sacrifice. So what decides the choices we make for each situation: go a spiritual way or commonsense way?

It seems that the First Century Church knew how to do it, and it seems that they found it important to show that they based their method on Jesus teachings.

[seanD]

I can agree with that. My concern is that the bolded part does not hold true for me. I know I should 'want to want to do His will', but most of the time I don't, if that makes sense.

By “wanting to do his will,” it’s difficult for me to gauge whether you’re referring to sin in general or your life’s plans and ambitions in a broader sense. If what you mean is the former, then this is indeed a problem that even Paul discussed, and is a daily struggle we go through as Christians (Romans 7:14-25). If you meant the latter, I firmly believe that God has a purpose for each one of us, and that purpose is as unique as we are to each other. I also firmly believe God uses our particular gifts and talents for whatever purpose he has for us (Romans 12:6-8), and what we find enjoyable ourselves is usually aligned with our particular gifts and talents. But sometimes we let carnal ambitions obfuscate his plans. It's very easy to confuse what God really wants or wants us to do and what the world tells us what is right or pressures us to do. Sometimes we can also confuse what God really wants or wants us to do and what other Christians tell us what God wants or wants us to do. Maybe what you have concluded as God’s will for your particular life really isn’t, but was instead drawn from either of those two circumstances. Maybe that’s why it doesn’t seem enjoyable. On the other hand, sometimes God might require a situation that is temporarily unenjoyable that will eventually end up enjoyable once we reach God’s ultimate plan (a la the story of Joseph), which would require faith and endurance.

That's quite insightful. I've heard the teaching where it is explained that there are carnal activities, spiritual and then neutral. Neutral would be somethings like secular work, where you can work for luxuries or work to care for your family.

But Jesus said you can either worship God or Money.

And elsewhere, He said God will provide for our needs, like He provides for the lilies of the field. Is it hyperbolic?

It becomes a very difficult balance in a worldly sense for a Christian (especially in our postmodern era where materialism has become sensory overload) to distinguish between what is necessary for our survival and what isn’t and to guard against what is unnecessary and where it has the potential to become a hindrance to our faith and spirituality. Jesus had some pretty extreme teachings against materialism and about self-denial that we postmoderns have a very difficult time with for obvious reasons, but I think these views saturate his teachings to a point where it is impossible to brush off as just hyperbole or something that was meant only for his adherents in that specific time period. I think it was hyperbole in the sense that he wasn't necessarily advocating total asceticism in our actions, but it more of a pointed warning against a particular state of mind that allows our carnal natures to become so reliant on materialism to a point it becomes a hindrance to God's will. Where we draw that line becomes very difficult, and I'm sure varies with each individual.

[footwasher]

seanD wrote:

On the other hand, sometimes God might require a situation that is temporarily unenjoyable that will eventually end up enjoyable once we reach God’s ultimate plan (a la the story of Joseph), which would require faith and endurance.

This is excellent! Instead of rationalising and categorizings the teaching as hyperbole. we could conclude:

God's will:good
Our will: bad

Sometimes God "will" puts us in situations where we are making unrighteous mammon, and it's okay. We just use unrighteous mammon to do righteous deeds!

9"And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings. Luke 16