The Creation: Miracle or Magic?

[OtherCheek]

Only by His choice, and only while He CHOOSES to remain subject to them.

(Which, of course, means that, ultimately, He's in charge! )

Can God be the first to break a promise or covenant if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?
Can God release himself from the principle of "cause and effect" if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?
Can God release himself from administering the same perfect mercy and justice to even one person? And remain a perfect being?
Can God release himself from the law of the harvest, and still be God if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?
Can God release himself from his own accountability if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

[Cow Poke]

I am not going into a discussion of the Trinity.

Did I say Trinity? But, actually, you kinda did get into a discussion of the Trinity, by referring to God becoming flesh.

But let me ask you a question. Could the Father and the Holy Ghost take on a body of flesh the same time that Jesus did?

Are you conceding that they do NOT currently have physical bodies? Or are you just trying to make a point. And if God "became flesh" through Christ, why was that necessary, if he already had a physical body?

[Sparko]

Evil isn't the opposite of Good. Evil is the absence of Good. Like dark is the absence of light.

[Cow Poke]

CP,

We do not know the whole of God. So many things written about God are but small views from one perspective. There may be many things said that are true as seen from one angle.

I will be the first to admit there is much I do NOT know about God. It would be silly for somebody to say they fully (or even mostly) comprehended "God".

I try to avoid such arguments about things I can't wrap my head around. So when some one says God can't do something I normally disagree. I think there is a way to see God subject to the very rules which He made. But to fully define God is foolish. It can not be done.

But you already pointed out that God CHOSE to be subject to ... "whatever".

We do not know the exact nature of God. We do know that all power comes from His Spirit. And the power of creation is a part of God. So one could easily say that creation itself has always existed in many forms.

I think you were doing better when you said you "try to avoid such arguments about things I can't wrap my head around." Can you wrap your head around the power of creation?

We also know that things which exist in the physical world have a parallel in the spirit world.

Sure - parables give great examples.

So does God have an infinite storehouse of spiritual stuff that is used to form matter? I don't know. But I am sure that any number of ways could be used to describe the creation process and each one of those could be seen as different. I don't get to wrapped up in this kind of nit picking.

Then, honestly, why bring it up? What point are you trying to make?

I think there are stumbling blocks out there for us to fall on. I try and walk around those that I see. I can accept many views of the nature of God because each one is but a small view. But I don't place any view as a complete description of God. This is where most of the disagreements come from. One person loves one view and rejects another view. But from where I sit descriptions of God can be very diverse.

Can you just say what you want to say? It almost sounds like you're trying to step back from your admission that God became flesh in Christ. And that's not an accusation, Frank -- it's an observation, to which you are free to respond.

You say you "try to avoid such arguments about things I can't wrap my head around", then you seem to dive right in, anyway.

[OtherCheek]

Only to those who don't understand that by His very NATURE, He is God, and can do whatever He wants whenever He wants.

And I believe that if God ceased to be a perfect being, he would lose his title of God. In other words, God makes rules, yes. But can God make a rule that says he can do WHATEVER he wants--and be released from his own accountability? No.

Let's say you make a rule for your company that you will reward everyone 1 dollar for every widget made. Except for those that have flat noses. And those people must work for no pay.

Now, your rule is clear, and you can follow through with your plan just as your rule states, and not be a rule breaker. But are you JUST?

Is being JUST something God can release himself from, and still be a perfect being?

[Cow Poke]

Can God be the first to break a promise or covenant if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?
Can God release himself from the principle of "cause and effect" if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?
Can God release himself from administering the same perfect mercy and justice to even one person? And remain a perfect being?
Can God release himself from the law of the harvest, and still be God if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?
Can God release himself from his own accountability if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

Can God create a rock so big and heavy He cannot pick it up? These are games, OC.

[OtherCheek]

Evil isn't the opposite of Good. Evil is the absence of Good. Like dark is the absence of light.

Evil just is. It's existence does not depend upon the absence of something else. Something has to fill the space. Look at what Jesus taught regarding evil spirits possessing individuals.

[Cow Poke]

And I believe that if God ceased to be a perfect being, he would lose his title of God.

And, who is going to strip Him of His "title", OC? You?

In other words, God makes rules, yes. But can God make a rule that says he can do WHATEVER he wants--and be released from his own accountability? No.

Then He isn't God.

Let's say you make a rule for your company that you will reward everyone 1 dollar for every widget made. Except for those that have flat noses. And those people must work for no pay.

We don't make widgets. I don't like widgets. We make gidgets.
But you're saying that God has to be "fair" according to your definition of "fair"?

Now, your rule is clear, and you can follow through with your plan just as your rule states, and not be a rule breaker. But are you JUST?

I think you're confusing "fair" with "just".

Is being JUST something God can release himself from, and still be a perfect being?

God IS just.

Scripture Verse:

(Isa 45:21 KJV) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

[franktalk]

Are you conceding that they do NOT currently have physical bodies? Or are you just trying to make a point. And if God "became flesh" through Christ, why was that necessary, if he already had a physical body?

If you answer my question then I can make a point.

[Sparko]

And I believe that if God ceased to be a perfect being, he would lose his title of God. In other words, God makes rules, yes. But can God make a rule that says he can do WHATEVER he wants--and be released from his own accountability? No.

Let's say you make a rule for your company that you will reward everyone 1 dollar for every widget made. Except for those that have flat noses. And those people must work for no pay.

Now, your rule is clear, and you can follow through with your plan just as your rule states, and not be a rule breaker. But are you JUST?

Is being JUST something God can release himself from, and still be a perfect being?

"Just" isn't a rule OC. being "just" is what God IS. It is his nature. He can't not be himself.

[OtherCheek]

Can God create a rock so big and heavy He cannot pick it up? These are games, OC.

I'll venture answers to them.

Can God create a rock so big and heavy He cannot pick it up?

No. God cannot create any such rock.

Can God be the first to break a promise or covenant if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

Can God release himself from the principle of "cause and effect" if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

Can God release himself from administering the same perfect mercy and justice to even one person? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

Can God release himself from the law of the harvest, and still be God if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

Can God release himself from his own accountability if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

[OtherCheek]

"Just" isn't a rule OC. being "just" is what God IS. It is his nature. He can't not be himself.

He has no choice or power then to alter himself?

[Sparko]

Evil just is. It's existence does not depend upon the absence of something else. Something has to fill the space. Look at what Jesus taught regarding evil spirits possessing individuals.

Before there was anything else, there was God. God was (is) completely good. There is no evil in him. Evil did not exist. Only good. The first evil, Satan rebelling against God, was a shortcoming. Instead of being like God, Satan wanted to BE God. His pride was a corruption of good. We are supposed to want to emulate God, in that we strive to be good and just, and loving. But Satan corrupted that goodness and wanted to set his throne in place of God. That was evil. It was a corruption of good, an absence of good.

[Cow Poke]

I'll venture answers to them.

Can God create a rock so big and heavy He cannot pick it up?

No. God cannot create any such rock.

Can God be the first to break a promise or covenant if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

Can God release himself from the principle of "cause and effect" if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

Can God release himself from administering the same perfect mercy and justice to even one person? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

Can God release himself from the law of the harvest, and still be God if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

Can God release himself from his own accountability if he chooses? And remain a perfect being?

No. He would cease to be a perfect Being

You are judging God based on your understanding of Who/What God is, or should be.
Is there something about you we don't know, OC?

[franktalk]

Can you just say what you want to say? It almost sounds like you're trying to step back from your admission that God became flesh in Christ. And that's not an accusation, Frank -- it's an observation, to which you are free to respond.

My faith is solid. Any comments that suggest otherwise are just stupid.

You say you "try to avoid such arguments about things I can't wrap my head around", then you seem to dive right in, anyway.

There are things in scripture I think are clear and others that are not. I am consistent in my posts and often say that what I write is an opinion. Can you say the same thing?