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Thread: Jesus' cry from the cross

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    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
    I sure hope you are not that literal in your relationships. Hint: When a woman says, "You don't love me anymore" she is using a rhetorical emotional device. She isn't literally saying she literally believes you don't literally love her any more. Sheesh.
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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Psalm 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

    This verse does not negate the prior abandonment. It just means that God eventually hears the cry, and eventually intervenes. Further, I will point out that verse 24 appears to be part of a quotation.

    22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
    23 ["]Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
    24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.["]

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    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    Psalm 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

    This verse does not negate the prior abandonment. It just means that God eventually hears the cry, and eventually intervenes. Further, I will point out that verse 24 appears to be part of a quotation.

    22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
    23 ["]Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
    24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.["]
    I still do not see how you are able to cling onto a single verse (namely Jesus' utterance of Psalm 22:1) in order to substantiate your claim that the Father literally abandoned the Son on the cross. (You also have conveniently ignored the rest of my points in my prior post specifically addressed to you.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
    I sure hope you are not that literal in your relationships. Hint: When a woman says, "You don't love me anymore" she is using a rhetorical emotional device. She isn't literally saying she literally believes you don't literally love her any more. Sheesh.
    Yeah but DD that's a woman...you can't always go by what they say anyway because it most often means the opposite!



    Saw this from W.E. Vine:

    Note: A recent translator renders this verb in Matthew 27:50 "uttered a scream," an utterly deplorable mistranslation and a misrepresentation of the nature of the Lord's "cry."

    http://www.studylight.org/dic/ved/view.cgi?n=624

    Anyone know who Vine is referring to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
    I sure hope you are not that literal in your relationships. Hint: When a woman says, "You don't love me anymore" she is using a rhetorical emotional device. She isn't literally saying she literally believes you don't literally love her any more. Sheesh.
    But if i was to read a story, and read that the woman told the man, "you don't love me anymore," i would have to assume that she meant what she stated, because it's a statement. That statement literally means that her perspective literally sees the man as having no love toward her. I can't just assume that she's being emotional, I have to find out whether or not she is. That's why we have to search the text to understand the meaning of Jesus statement, so we have the correct context. No assumptions, No pre-suppositions, etc. Only text, we must let the text define the text, so what do we do? Keep looking until we find the evidence, or enough evidence, that defines the statement.

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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Yes, when a woman says that she is lying to manipulate the man's emotions. Unless she truly believes it -- in which case she is either delusional, or correct.

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    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    DDW was confronting Obsidian's approach to Jesus' "cry of dereliction". It was, therefore, relevant.

    I really hope we are not about to go off on some extended gender relations rant derail of this thread now.
    For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

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    tWebber Darth Xena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamLives View Post
    But if i was to read a story, and read that the woman told the man, "you don't love me anymore," i would have to assume that she meant what she stated, because it's a statement. That statement literally means that her perspective literally sees the man as having no love toward her. I can't just assume that she's being emotional, I have to find out whether or not she is. That's why we have to search the text to understand the meaning of Jesus statement, so we have the correct context. No assumptions, No pre-suppositions, etc. Only text, we must let the text define the text, so what do we do? Keep looking until we find the evidence, or enough evidence, that defines the statement.
    And you would be wrong. Just as if you grabbed a kennel rather than an umbrella when I said it was raining cats and dogs. But despite all that, the context tells us… He is quoting Psalm 22 which says precisely the opposite. And no one said she was "being emotional" - using an emotional rhetorical device is not the same. When someone "breaks your heart", I doubt you go to see a heart surgeon.

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    tWebber Darth Xena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    Yes, when a woman says that she is lying to manipulate the man's emotions. Unless she truly believes it -- in which case she is either delusional, or correct.
    Good luck with that. You will be a social retard if you live liked that.

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    tWebber Darth Xena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Remonstrant View Post
    DDW was confronting Obsidian's approach to Jesus' "cry of dereliction". It was, therefore, relevant.

    I really hope we are not about to go off on some extended gender relations rant derail of this thread now.
    Piggo, as thread starter, please put an end to the misogynistic insertion.

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