Freedom of religion in consitution

[Cow Poke]

Yup PC - As a devout (I hope) Christian, I have to contend with the "Image" of Christianity some people have as you describe above. This is always very discouraging.

One of Russell's reasons "Why I am not a Christian" is all the bloodshed shed in the name of Christianity . . . the Crusades, "saving" the soul's of the "savages" around the world, the inquisitions, the religious wars of the 14th through 17th Centuries, and most recently murdering Doctors.

BTW, good morning phaedrus.

Yes, there always seems to be somebody who thinks we can "convert" somebody at the point of a sword or with royal decree.

My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and Righteousness.

[Sparko]

Could you find some place that Christ stoned someone to death or suggested someone should be stoned to death? If stoning to death or burning at the stake cannot be derived from anything Christ said or did, do you think its makes sense to say people got this idea from Christ? Is it at least possible they derived this idea from elsewhere?

Can you find anywhere that Jesus told his followers to change the government into a theocracy, forcing Christian beliefs on the rest of the world? No you can't.

In fact, whenever someone brought up revolution, Jesus put them down, saying his kingdom was not of this world, and to give unto Caesar what was Caesar's.

It's funny how you revert to wanting to force a theocracy onto the USA and use the OT Israelites as a model and excuse why we should do so (the Law) and yet when someone points out that following such a government means you also have to follow their penalties (stoning, etc) -- well then, all of a sudden you abandon the OT model and appeal to the NT model of the church that did not stone or follow the law's penalties.

You can't have it both ways. If you want an OT theocracy, you need to go 100%. If you want to follow the NT Church, then you have to abandon the idea of a theocracy because the Kingdom of God is not of this world, and we are not of this world. We are ambassadors to this world. Ambassadors don't hijack the countries they are hosted in.

but you know what? since Congress can't make any laws regarding the free exercise of religion, that doesn't mean YOU can't. Why not set up your own compound or commune somewhere, and incorporate it as a city, and then you can make your own laws regarding religion. You have have your very own Jonestown or Waco!

[Cow Poke]

In fact, whenever someone brought up revolution, Jesus put them down, saying his kingdom was not of this world, and to give unto Caesar what was Caesar's.

I was gonna say that but the "thread host" is pitchin' a little hissy and not speaking to me.

So, thanks for being my sock puppet on this! Maybe he'll respond to me YOU.

(we used to do that when we were kids .. . "I'm not talking to you... " "Mom, Rogue is talking to me and I'm not talking to him" "Mom, tell Rogue to leave me alone" "Mom... Rogue is LOOKING at me!" we were SO childish! )

[Xru]

Can you find anywhere that Jesus told his followers to change the government into a theocracy, forcing Christian beliefs on the rest of the world? No you can't.

In fact, whenever someone brought up revolution, Jesus put them down, saying his kingdom was not of this world, and to give unto Caesar what was Caesar's.

It's funny how you revert to wanting to force a theocracy onto the USA and use the OT Israelites as a model and excuse why we should do so (the Law) and yet when someone points out that following such a government means you also have to follow their penalties (stoning, etc) -- well then, all of a sudden you abandon the OT model and appeal to the NT model of the church that did not stone or follow the law's penalties.

You can't have it both ways. If you want an OT theocracy, you need to go 100%. If you want to follow the NT Church, then you have to abandon the idea of a theocracy because the Kingdom of God is not of this world, and we are not of this world. We are ambassadors to this world. Ambassadors don't hijack the countries they are hosted in.

but you know what? since Congress can't make any laws regarding the free exercise of religion, that doesn't mean YOU can't. Why not set up your own compound or commune somewhere, and incorporate it as a city, and then you can make your own laws regarding religion. You have have your very own Jonestown or Waco!

Good point . . . and good morning sparko.

Whenever in doubt I often ask myself . . . "What would Jesus do?" Well . . . I don't propose that I would know the will of God, but I do find it helpful as an inspiration to try and live up to the standards of my most admired Man ever to walk the Earth.

I agree sparko . . . I can not imagine Jesus would want a Christian Theocracy in the US. The US is IMHO, one of the places on Earth that allow even encourages freedom of choice. And that is what God wants us to have . . . freedom to choose Him over the world.

Force Christianity on people . . . Spain tried that after they kicked the Muslims out of S. Spain. Sure some turned form Islam to Christianity but many, from what I understand just did it to conform. I doubt that is how God wants us to come to him.

All the best.

[Xru]

I was gonna say that but the "thread host" is pitchin' a little hissy and not speaking to me.

So, thanks for being my sock puppet on this! Maybe he'll respond to me YOU.

(we used to do that when we were kids .. . "I'm not talking to you... " "Mom, Rogue is talking to me and I'm not talking to him" "Mom, tell Rogue to leave me alone" "Mom... Rogue is LOOKING at me!" we were SO childish! )

Well CP . .. talking common sense to someone is always hazardous, and if you talk common sense to me when I'm spouting something silly I'm really gonna resent it, hear.

I might even have the Methodists send the squirrel assassins after you. Make sure you check under the bed, eh.

All the best.

[Cow Poke]

Well CP . .. talking common sense to someone is always hazardous, and if you talk common sense to me when I'm spouting something silly I'm really gonna resent it, hear.

I might even have the Methodists send the squirrel assassins after you. Make sure you check under the bed, eh.

All the best.

And I thought we were buddies!

[Catholicity]

One more thing to add. I am a believing Christian, but, there are many who are not. and The Lord does not force anyone to choose him thus Adam and Eve sinned in the garden...consequently, the Lord does not force others to believe in Him, he does not force people to choose righteousness over the works of this world. Period. So why should we Christians go to our neighbors and say "you pagan must now worship our God" You wouldn't like it if someone forced you to worship Odin!

[Xru]

And I thought we were buddies!

Golly . . . I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.

Honestly, I feel this strange and . . . oddly disturbing attraction to you CP. Sort of the same feeling I get when I listen to Billy Idol singing "White Wedding."

No no . . . that's just crap. I got that like from one of the "Funny"parts in Saving Private Ryan, a thoroughly not funny movie.

Actually, the Gestalt (ya like that word) of your posts I've seen impress me with a certain amount of common sense, a characteristic that seems thoroughly lacking among some who post frequently on this Forum, especially under the NS 301 course.

Cheers.

[rogue06]

well do you have a better idea Mr Evidence fabricator!!!

Don't blame Sparko. I did a real thorough job setting the Pope up as my fall guy for the squirrels. And btw, they are NOT assassins. They are merely meant to send CP a "message."

[Cow Poke]

Golly . . . I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.

Honestly, I feel this strange and . . . oddly disturbing attraction to you CP. Sort of the same feeling I get when I listen to Billy Idol singing "White Wedding."

No no . . . that's just crap. I got that like from one of the "Funny"parts in Saving Private Ryan, a thoroughly not funny movie.

Actually, the Gestalt (ya like that word) of your posts I've seen impress me with a certain amount of common sense, a characteristic that seems thoroughly lacking among some who post frequently on this Forum, especially under the NS 301 course.

Cheers.

OK, hand me a hankie so I can clean off the coffee that I spit all over my monitor.

You are a NUT!!!! (You should fit right in)

[Cow Poke]

Don't blame Sparko. I did a real thorough job setting the Pope up as my fall guy for the squirrels. And btw, they are NOT assassins. They are merely meant to send CP a "message."

[rogue06]

Nah . . . the squirrel assassins were sent by the Methodists to try and make it look like the Pope was out to get CP.

Thankfully, I was there to deflect the bullets with my magic bracelets, ha ha ha ha ha.

Regards

I'm really starting to get quite miffed at people seeking to take credit for my work

Don't make me smite you. And lest you think me incapable if such an act you should be warned that I've got the official^TM smitification suit for the job and a history of using it

smite.JPG
Not like you weren't warned

[rogue06]

Can you find anywhere that Jesus told his followers to change the government into a theocracy, forcing Christian beliefs on the rest of the world? No you can't.

Sure you can. The part where he instructs us to "rend Caesar."

Huh? Just a second.

My bad. Didn't have my glasses on.

It appears that we weren't told to "rend Caesar" but rather to "render unto Caesar."

[jinpark]

One more thing to add. I am a believing Christian, but, there are many who are not. and The Lord does not force anyone to choose him thus Adam and Eve sinned in the garden...consequently, the Lord does not force others to believe in Him, he does not force people to choose righteousness over the works of this world. Period.

Of course he doesn't force you to chose him. Can you find something I've said that suggests that you can be forced to love him? His return will force you to believe in him in the sense that you reading this sentence forces you to believe some entity exists that authored it. You can't stand before a returned Christ and claim you don't see him. But maybe I don't understand what you mean by forced. The forcing the lord does not do is to simply use magic to force your mind believe in and follow him. He however often uses direct punishment in the bible when the Israelites start worshipping Baal and other dieties to get them to do what he wants.

The main point of this is that humans laws can never force you to love something. Most of the time they tell you what the proper thing for you do so is.

So why should we Christians go to our neighbors and say "you pagan must now worship our God"

For the same reason the Israelites went to the Ammelakites and Canaanites with the same requirement. When the Israelites took young women as the spoils of war I'm sure they were not allowed to keep the religion of their fathers. Had the Ammelakites and Canaanites worshiped the one true god things might have went a lot different for them.

[Xru]

Don't blame Sparko. I did a real thorough job setting the Pope up as my fall guy for the squirrels. And btw, they are NOT assassins. They are merely meant to send CP a "message."

Okay . . .. I knew the setup was professional. But I had NOOOO idea it was you rogue. You are too, too bad!!