Why do Americans still dislike atheists? / WaPo OpEd

[Cow Poke]

Hitler was a bad guy and nobody likes him. There, discussion over.

Not even his mommy?

[shunyadragon]

Hitler was a bad guy and nobody likes him. There, discussion over.

Actually the dialogue was over what is the difference between moral relativism, and moral absolutism. In reality ones religious beliefs or lack of does not determine which camp you fall in. Many theists consider atheists and agnostics as moral relativists, and this may or may not be so. Many Christian theists may be considered moral relativists, particularly if the do not believe in 'objective 'absolute' morality' of the Evangelicals.

[Thedonhopeless]

well, they do exactly what everyone hates Christians for: being Holy rollers and arrogant. Pushing their beliefs ( lol or lack there of as they put it) onto everyone, whining because people pray in school and in the white house. They are a threat to free thought and intellectual progress, no matter how much they bark about being more rational. They consistently censor, lie, and aggressively seek to destroy the religious sector by any means possible. They are the minority since the dawn of time and will always be such, for theirs is a fringe religion of naturalism, denying the very soul and meaning of all mankind..who could like someone like that? They are nice people, I don't think they are any more evil then any of us are or could be, but atheists are in the end, anomolies of logic and reason, instead of sole proprietors.

[Jaecp]

Is that...

Is that a Poe?

Please let it be a Poe

[phaedrus]

Is that...

Is that a Poe?

Please let it be a Poe

I certainly hope so because your only other choice is 'dumb as a doorknob'.

[Darth Ovious]

No, it does not matter where the ideas or beliefs come from. It matters how absolute the beliefs are concerning morals. Today many people in the west and the rest of the world accept a diversity of 'moral systems' as OK, and do not view one system as absolute as Hitler did. Tolerance and even acceptance toward other moral systems that are different is Moral Relativism, whether this view is good or bad I will not comment at this point. Example, Homosexuality was considered absolutely amoral under Hitler, and they went to the concentration camps with the Jews. In 'Moral Relativism' one may not approve of Homosexuality in their own moral system, but consider it OK that others practice and approve of Homosexuality.

And most people would consider murder absolutely immoral.

[shunyadragon]

And most people would consider murder absolutely immoral.

True, but that is not the point of the discussion. We were discussing Moral Relativism vs, Moral Absolutism. Actually it is best described as 'wrongful killing' from different cultural perspectives, and unfortunately it is often defined differently at different times and cultures. Under Hitler you could be tried and convicted for murder as his government defined 'wrongful killing' in rather absolute terms

[showmeproof]

And most people would consider murder absolutely immoral.

Absolutely? No. Suppose there is an intruder in your home intent on harming your family. Is it immoral for you to kill him? I'll pull the trigger, and I'll let you attempt to sit him down to discuss theology over tea and crumpets.

[Cow Poke]

Absolutely? No. Suppose there is an intruder in your home intent on harming your family. Is it immoral for you to kill him? I'll pull the trigger, and I'll let you attempt to sit him down to discuss theology over tea and crumpets.

I suspect we have a difference of opinion on "murder" vs. "kill".

[showmeproof]

well, they do exactly what everyone hates Christians for: being Holy rollers and arrogant. Pushing their beliefs ( lol or lack there of as they put it) onto everyone, whining because people pray in school and in the white house. They are a threat to free thought and intellectual progress, no matter how much they bark about being more rational. They consistently censor, lie, and aggressively seek to destroy the religious sector by any means possible. They are the minority since the dawn of time and will always be such, for theirs is a fringe religion of naturalism, denying the very soul and meaning of all mankind..who could like someone like that? They are nice people, I don't think they are any more evil then any of us are or could be, but atheists are in the end, anomolies of logic and reason, instead of sole proprietors.

Well this is interesting. I understand some may feel this way and this may be why some "Americans still hate atheists." I find this rather uninformed and facile. "Destroy the religious sector by any means possible," seems a rather strong statement especially since all I have seen is advertisements, blogs, and books; indeed, a threat to free thought.

[shadowmaster]

I would suggest that americans are largely judeo-christian.
Their basic moral code is the ten commandments.
They may be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments'

The first 5 of these involve the worship of god.
No atheist sunsribes to these.

How then can be said that atheists and average Americans share a common moral code?
Only after ones throws out 1/2 of what they believe?



SM

[Thedonhopeless]

Well this is interesting. I understand some may feel this way and this may be why some "Americans still hate atheists." I find this rather uninformed and facile. "Destroy the religious sector by any means possible," seems a rather strong statement especially since all I have seen is advertisements, blogs, and books; indeed, a threat to free thought.

I might have exaggerated a bit about all atheists wanting to destroy religion, there are many of course who would love to see religion abandoned completely, but honestly that's only in my experience not the rule I'm sure, even if there is a large group consisting of doctors, scientists and laymen who do everything possible to undermine the "free thought" of theists. . However, when it comes to atheists doing what peopel say they hate about christians, such as claiming sole propriety to something IE christians the way to heaven atheists the way to reason, they mostly all do this. They push their atheistic agenda on everyone, such as stated before, prayer in school etc.

"New" atheism, with their oxymora apologetics for atheism, certainly have been going in the direction of proselytizing, even as they cry in loud voices they have a neutral lack of belief therefore nothing to prove. It is cognitive dissonance at its least and delusional at its worst.

[Tassman]

I might have exaggerated a bit about all atheists wanting to destroy religion, there are many of course who would love to see religion abandoned completely, but honestly that's only in my experience not the rule I'm sure, even if there is a large group consisting of doctors, scientists and laymen who do everything possible to undermine the "free thought" of theists. . However, when it comes to atheists doing what peopel say they hate about christians, such as claiming sole propriety to something IE christians the way to heaven atheists the way to reason, they mostly all do this. They push their atheistic agenda on everyone, such as stated before, prayer in school etc.

Atheism does not have an agenda. Atheism is nothing more than the belief that gods don’t exist. What you call its agenda is no more than resisting the demands and expectations of theists for special privileges such as subjecting children to prayers in school - which is basically Christian indoctrination..

"New" atheism, with their oxymora apologetics for atheism, certainly have been going in the direction of proselytizing, even as they cry in loud voices they have a neutral lack of belief therefore nothing to prove. It is cognitive dissonance at its least and delusional at its worst.

They may not have anything to prove but they do have their interests to defend. So when theists push for their religious agenda to be given the authority of law, e.g. enforcing the teaching of Creationism in schools, then non-theists will protest as per the Dover case. And rightly so.

[Oolon Colluphid]

certainly have been going in the direction of proselytizing

So is proselytizing wrong then?

If it is, then what you're saying is effectively, "atheists are just as bad as believers" not perhaps the best thought-through position to adopt for a believer. I'd also say it's inaccurate. Certainly, I've never had an atheist knock on my door and proseltize, but I've opened my door to many earnest believers. I've never encountered an atheist in the street or shopping mall trying to convert me. I know of no TV stations dedicated to proselytizing. Honestly, even if some atheists are "guilty" of proselytizing, I'd say their efforts pale into insignificance when compared with the efforts of believers. As it happens, I don't "dislike" believers because they proselytize (I don't dislike believers at all in fact), even if it is true (as the OP implies) that Americans dislike atheists.

But if proselytizing isn't wrong, then what are you complaining about?

...who could like someone like that? They are nice people...

Erm....consistent much?

[The Pixie]

shadowmaster

I would suggest that americans are largely judeo-christian.
Their basic moral code is the ten commandments.
They may be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments'

The first 5 of these involve the worship of god.
No atheist sunsribes to these.

How then can be said that atheists and average Americans share a common moral code?
Only after ones throws out 1/2 of what they believe?

One, I would like to assure you that atheists do not have any gods before the Christian/Judaic God.

Two, atheist do not make idols to worship.

Three, I would guess that most atheists do not make false oaths in the name of the Christian/Judaic God. Not making false oaths is as much a part of atheist morality as Christian.

Four, I would question how many Christians keep the sabbath - as Jesus understood it, from dusk on Friday to dusk on Saturday - to be holy.

Five, is honouring your parents about worshipping God?.