Nobility Among Us Comment Thread

[Ben Zwycky]

This thread will be for giving feedback on the prologue and chapter 1 of Nobility Among Us, which can be found here (some of you may have read more than that elsewhere, please don’t discuss anything from the rest of the story in this thread).

Please give me your first impressions and overall feel you get from the opening, if anything seems clumsy or pretentious or offputting in any way, if anything seems to be missing or unnecessary, or if there’s anything that really works well for you as a reader and you’d like to see more of.

Thanks in advance for your input,

[Debbaux]

Very interesting beginning Ben. Seemed a bit 1984-ish to begin, then moved to Pride and Prejudice-ish, then something new. I don't read novels (can't normally maintain concentration on loads of irrelevant detail) but the start of yours is minimalist on description, very welcome. You certainly have a knack for keeping it interesting. Looks like a winner to me.
Deb.

[Ben Zwycky]

Thanks, that was sort of the tone I was going for. I've always been allergic to waffling and padding, which means my descriptive passages sometimes suffer as a result, but I'm pretty happy with how I've done so far (hence the need for some fresh perspective, in case it's just better than it was rather than actually good).

In trying to please everyone, I included an extensive appendix that describes the world in which it is set, it's political and judicial system, philosophy, economy, geography and some of its history, plus a more detailed description of how the contest works (all of these things are touched upon in the story itself in one way or another), because there are some geeks among us who really like those sorts of details and having a thorough feel for the world itself helps them to immerse themselves in the events of the story, while for others it's really off-putting.

[Ben Zwycky]

Anyone else have anything to say about it?

[moreta]

More please.

Just from that little bit, I can think of so many different directions the story line could go. I agree it may be a bit Pride and Predjudicey, but that's my favorite Jane Austen book, so no worries there. I think the ever so slightly stilltedness of the language will do much to help convey the tone of the society you've developed. The descriptions were well written. Enough detail that I could picture it in my mind, but not so much that no imagination was needed. I think it's a fine start, and certainly piqued my interest. Do carry on.

[Ben Zwycky]

Well, yes, a lot of things happen later on, the full thing (currently sixth draft version 8) is a mere 125 thousand words, plus another two and a half thousand for the appendix. I’m reasonably happy I’ll be keeping people’s attention once they get into the story, but getting the balance right with the opening - to explain enough in a natural way while getting things moving, drawing in the new reader and gaining that momentum where they’ll be eager to continue – that has been a real challenge for me. It’s an important part of getting the book published, since the prologue and chapter 1 is what I’d be sending to a prospective agent/publisher, and also what a prospective customer will take a look at before deciding if they want to buy a copy.

But before we even get to that stage, it’s best if they actually want me to send them a sample chapter/take a look inside the cover, so I have to come up with an enticing but not misleading back cover blurb.

This is what I have for that so far:




The kingdom of Gandria was a troubled place, the threads that held society together appeared to be unwinding until the instigation of an audacious new strategy by the powers at be. Each year lowborn girls, apparently selected by the public itself with great media fanfare, were to be married into the nobility to represent the needs of ordinary citizens. Some within the monarchy feared that giving the people the impression that they had any genuine influence and allowing those lowborn into noble families could lead to great upheaval in society, but had to admit that the move had paid off handsomely, public faith in the monarchy was much improved and civil disturbances were now almost unheard of, the considerable income from broadcasting rights being a welcome bonus. Tonight, however, was the beginning of a process that would prove those fears justified.


What do you think?

[Debbaux]

Nice teaser. Two comments/questions - would it be better to have it in the present tense to bring the reader into the story where it begins? "The kingdom of Gandria *is* a troubled place...". Also, with my lack of concentration, the last good punchy sentence was lost on me with the information between the two mentions of fears, and I had to reread it to find what "those fears" were. I think the last statement loses some of the kick it deserves being a little far from the fears it's talking about.
Deb.

[moreta]

I agree, it's good. And I agree changing to present tense would make it more immediate. And I would change the last line to something like...
"This year, however, would prove the beginnning of..." And carry on. I chose "this year" as against "Tonight", because it refers back to the "each year".

[Ben Zwycky]

Thank you for your suggestions, how about this, then?



The kingdom of Gandria is a troubled place, the very threads that hold society together appear to be unwinding until the instigation of an audacious new strategy by the powers at be. Each year lowborn girls, apparently selected by the public itself with great media fanfare, are to be married into the nobility to represent the needs of ordinary citizens. This move has so far paid off handsomely, public faith in the monarchy is much improved and civil disturbances are now almost unheard of, the considerable income from broadcasting rights being a welcome bonus. Some within the monarchy fear that giving the people the impression that they have any genuine influence, as well as allowing those lowborn into noble families could lead to great upheaval in society. Such concerns are never raised in public, so as not to jeopardize the gains that have been made, but tonight would be the beginning of a process that would prove those fears justified.





I prefer tonight rather than this year, it's a little punchier and more focused, also the prologue and chapter 1 are really the setup for the main story, which takes place 5 years later (I originally began with a much shorter version of chapter 1, I only added the prologue later and began my seemingly endless tweaking when people commented that the context of the evening was unclear), so it's not about that year at all.



Last I looked, this isn't the Sorority, are there any guys that would like to comment?

[moreta]

I like it. And what you say make sense. I think the guys are just jealous.

[Debbaux]

Maybe some highlighting, bolding or capitalisation of the links in your signature will draw more attention to it? It's pretty understated.

[EmDee]

I am not a guy, but may I be so bold as offer my humble opinion?
I would suggest even shorter punchier statements/sentances.This (below) I take it is your 'grabber' - something that will make your readers want to open the pages and delve inside?

Something like the following maybe...
The kingdom of Gandria is a troubled place. The very threads that hold society together appear to be unwinding. Each year lowborn girls are chosen by the townsfolk and offered a chance to marry into nobility [in a farce to represent the needs of other ordinary citizens? - would suggest further rewording - I dont see how can marrying would represent other citizens needs ?]. This move has so far paid off handsomely, public faith in the monarchy is much improved, civil disturbances are almost unheard of, but, some within the monarchy, secretly fear that giving lowborn citizens the impression that they have any genuine influence could lead to a great upheaval in society. Such concerns are never raised in public, (could say - never spoken out loud or are only whispered) so as not to jeopardize the gains that have been made, but, tonight would be the beginning of a process that proves those fears are indeed justified.

Well something like that. I was always taught to cull what you have written and when you think you have culled as much as you can - do it again whilst keeping your story intact. This encourages you to pick your words and sentances and to use each one the very best advantage that you can - helps over use, over explaining (you need to let the reader use their imagination and build pictures in their heads whilst they read) cuts down on repitition of words (try to think of another way to say something you have already said if you want it repeated) and fluffing out which makes readers bored and skip sections. Use every word to its best advantage. What you had was good but in my humble opinion it wasnt punchy enough to grab my attention and make me ask questions that i needed to open the pages to get my answers.

it was the usual mix, this was to be expected of course... these are in the first couple of lines of your opening chapter and doesnt give me any urgency to get in there and read it - I would delete or move those bits to lower in the page. I would suggest starting with - The great halls of Gandria Castle were fitted out.... that makes me think ohhhh why are they fitted out/whats so special about this (read more to find out) In the first chapter or so you need to grab your reader's attention so they cant put your novel down give them things to question but not the answers till later on.

Can I also suggest you think about word repitition: You have used THE 10 times in the opening paragraph if you start from 'The great halls'. It is possible to eliminate some of these by rewording a little (The and AND - maybe WAS as well...are the most repeated words, yet can be replaced a lot of the time. (I havent done too much below - as its your story and you know way better what else you could change the the's to than i could as you know your story and I - just the first chapter :) .

So a suggestion may well look like this...
The great halls of Gandria Castle were fitted out in all their splendour, crowned off with a new set of diamond and sapphire cascade chandeliers (you could add here it they caught the light, filtered to the grand floor below or spread rays of light sun whatever over the scene below...) (R)oyal decorators had outdone themselves (maybe with sheer opulence or something like that as there is room to build the atmosphere in this with a bit more 'colour')

Along the east side of the reception hall ( lay?) a series of (are they heavy - light, chunky?) buffet tables laden with delightful (delicious looking) delicacies (from all over *Gandria?*)
South, a large chamber orchestra played (try haunting or something? Dont let your readers relax yet- they have just started your book) melodies,. West was a row of circular tables and chairs for those too tired, or simply not in the mood (remove the brackets these are rarely used in novels) to stand or mingle in the rooms center (where most were gathered).

and so on,
...psst 14 the's in the next paragraph :D

Speech - "grumbled' 'parried' etc is great (no repetitive Lord X said this Lord X said that - well done :) you could also use things like Lord X raised his eyebrow, scratched his lump whatever hehe "then spoke" occasionally as the little nuances of your character let your reader know more about them through their actions without stating it.

That said - once i started reading this i really want to read more - the start didnt grab me but after i got into it more i really enjoyed it. Hope my comments were helpful - if not just ignore :) Best of luck with the rest! Hope you post more

[Ben Zwycky]

Are you saying there wasn't enough reader momentum built up over the prologue, or that people usually skip the prologue and I need to grab their attention again at the start of chapter 1?

I'll take a look at your more detailed issues when I'm not so tired (new baby at home = more nocturnal interruptions, at least to start with). In the meantime, I'll put the appendix up in another thread here.

[Debbaux]

Ben thanks for sending chapter 1 which I will read soon, sorry for no reply yet. Been flat out busy for the last few weeks - sounds like you are too.
Regards, Deb.

[Ben Zwycky]

*grumble stupid token expiring, trying to remember what I said, grumble*


No problem, Deb, but I thought I sent you chapter 2?

EmDee, I’ve done another version of Chapter 1, reacting to some of your feedback, replacing some of the ‘was’es and changing the opening, as well as some other little touches. The ‘the’s are there to give an appropriate sense of grandness to the setting and its participants, though I did manage to cut a couple.

I did consciously try to avoid ‘said’, because I found it annoying myself, I’m glad someone noticed and appreciated that. :D

I’ll take another look at the teaser when I have some more energy, it’s a very rough draft of that, so I expect to make some changes there.

Is chapter 1 now acceptable? What did you think of the prologue?